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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    We finally had to go out and buy a red truck.
    Members of the company loved yellow so much that they voted overwhelmingly to go back to red.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Ding! Ding! Ding! WINNAH! WORKS here too! T.C.
    I know who both of my parents are, so they dont make me ride on a queernt.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    Hey FIREMECH1, someone better call the paint shop, the truck is the wrong color!
    I'll let this one go. I think you've been berated good enough on your color choice. Which incidentally, SUCKS. Ha-Ha

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Never mind. This is FireMech's thread.
    Please, do say or tell. I've got thicker skin than you think if it concerns me. Otherwise, blast away at whatever your thoughts are. I don't believe in censorship in any shape or form.

    As for the luck I've been given for this rig, we just may need it. With the fallout of what transpired, we are a little worried about the end result. The only good thing is, is that it is "RED". HEHE

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    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 11-04-2011 at 09:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    Please, do say or tell. I've got thicker skin than you think if it concerns me.
    Nawww it wasnt gonna step on your toes at all......I just didn't wanna turn this into another "Queernts Suck" thread.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    I'll let this one go. I think you've been berated good enough on your color choice. Which incidentally, SUCKS. Ha-Ha


    As for the luck I've been given for this rig, we just may need it. With the fallout of what transpired, we are a little worried about the end result. The only good thing is, is that it is "RED". HEHE

    FM1
    It's hard to the right thing sometimes. So I understand, I really do, as to why some of you guys bow out/down to peer pressure, and went from ALF Chrome Yellow to tomato red.

    SO. . . . . . if you ever get a longing for the "good old days" feel free to come on down and hang out with some real fire trucks!


    But in all seriousness though, It looks like a very nice truck. I wish you the best of luck and yea it could be worse Brother, if you know what I mean. I got my fingers crossed with our new HME that should be here in March.
    Stay Safe
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    Quote Originally Posted by BULL321 View Post
    SO. . . . . . if you ever get a longing for the "good old days" feel free to come on down and hang out with some real fire trucks!
    Give me directions to the public works garage or the school district bus yard please
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I know who both of my parents are, so they dont make me ride on a queernt.
    Well,I don't have to send an ENGINE to get my ladderpipe to WORK. AND you? Oh wait.......I KNOW the answer. The SMARTEST guy in your family tree couldn't find much to fault on OUR rig so I don't know what YOUR issue is. Given you have never seen it up close and personal. And I KNOW I've told you this before.......BUT.......I didn't buy the RIG for YOUR use, we bought it to serve the unique needs of OUR community. Which it does,VERY nicely. Now about that Steak? T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Well,I don't have to send an ENGINE to get my ladderpipe to WORK.
    This morning, I ran across a small history booklet of sorts produced by ALF in 1972. It outlines the history of the company with many photos to go along with it. At the end of the booklet, they show the "Century" series of apparatus and I had to chuckle when I saw the note at the bottom of the page beneath the Snorkel: "Quintuplet" operation available on aerials. What would it read today if published "Straight aerials available"?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Well,I don't have to send an ENGINE to get my ladderpipe to WORK. AND you? Oh wait.......I KNOW the answer. The SMARTEST guy in your family tree couldn't find much to fault on OUR rig so I don't know what YOUR issue is. Given you have never seen it up close and personal. And I KNOW I've told you this before.......BUT.......I didn't buy the RIG for YOUR use, we bought it to serve the unique needs of OUR community. Which it does,VERY nicely. Now about that Steak? T.C.
    That "Smartest Guy" has always said to me "Real ladder trucks have two steerin' wheels."

    Leave it to some a-hole on the left coast to go and throw a pump on one and go and ruin everything. (and slowly start to infect the rest of the country....)

    Sorry TC I just think that some ideas are too good to have to turn into oil with the rest of the dinosaurs. Stand-alone and fully staffed (4 guys each minimum, preferably 5 on the engine and 6 on the truck) engine and truck companies happens to be an idea that I embrace. Have seen to many fookups with people using queernts in fashions they shouldnt have been using them in. The results werent pretty, neither were the foundations left over.

    Cheesesteaks are good but lately I have been getting roast pork sammiches.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Give me directions to the public works garage or the school district bus yard please
    The N.C.D.O.T. shed and the County Bus garage are located on hwy 116 in Webster, right across the street and up the road about a 1/10 of a mile from our substation. Hey. . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . DAMN IT.
    Stay Safe
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    That "Smartest Guy" has always said to me "Real ladder trucks have two steerin' wheels."

    Leave it to some a-hole on the left coast to go and throw a pump on one and go and ruin everything. (and slowly start to infect the rest of the country....)

    Sorry TC I just think that some ideas are too good to have to turn into oil with the rest of the dinosaurs. Stand-alone and fully staffed (4 guys each minimum, preferably 5 on the engine and 6 on the truck) engine and truck companies happens to be an idea that I embrace. Have seen to many fookups with people using queernts in fashions they shouldnt have been using them in. The results werent pretty, neither were the foundations left over.

    Cheesesteaks are good but lately I have been getting roast pork sammiches.
    99 percent of us don't work for large, urban departments. Your staffing model is completely unrealistic for most departments.

    Those same departments have to spend thier money and assign what staff they do have wisely. Running apparatus that can't even put out fire on it's own is also unrealistic.

    I would like to see these examples of houses burning simply because the crew was assigned to a quint instead of a traditional truck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    99 percent of us don't work for large, urban departments. Your staffing model is completely unrealistic for most departments.

    Those same departments have to spend thier money and assign what staff they do have wisely. Running apparatus that can't even put out fire on it's own is also unrealistic.

    I would like to see these examples of houses burning simply because the crew was assigned to a quint instead of a traditional truck.
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company. Truck Company evolutions were then either not performed at all, or not aggressively enough. Got to the point where if we went out the door with the vollies Mon through Fri from 6am to 6pm and we pulled a line, I would tuck an axe into the belt of my SCBA and leave a 6ft hook in the hallway, cause that was it......you never knew how long or if the help was coming. Also cant tell you how many times I wish I had another 35' ladder, or another 28', or a 20' straight ladder.

    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.

    IMO, I think guys should put their passion and efforts into proposing & maintaining better staffing capable of operating two companies instead of bending over and getting politically raped with the Q dildo or trying to convince the rest of the world about how fabulous queernts are- if you dont have at least 8 guys and two officers on board, sorry. Aint gonna work for me. This battle has been waged in here before, and has been fought to a draw before. Lets just not do it again.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company. Truck Company evolutions were then either not performed at all, or not aggressively enough.
    EVERYTHING you describe there is a command issue...NOT an issue of your apparatus arriving with a pump or not. If yours did not have a pump, that same chief could just as easily have told you to grab a line off of another engine.

    And wouldn't the fact the structure was leveled probably be due to the fact that water wasn't applied? A task that your "truck" company was assigned? I've never seen a structure be lost because a primary wasn't done.

    Got to the point where if we went out the door with the vollies Mon through Fri from 6am to 6pm and we pulled a line, I would tuck an axe into the belt of my SCBA and leave a 6ft hook in the hallway, cause that was it......you never knew how long or if the help was coming. Also cant tell you how many times I wish I had another 35' ladder, or another 28', or a 20' straight ladder.
    And how many fires did you NOT use every available ladder? I'd imagine that was moreso the case than when you needed more ladders. Why not grab one off another rig? Also, perhaps it was a problem with your department's specification...but there are plenty of quints out there with very sizable ground ladder compliments.

    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.
    I don't know why, because I have better things to do than buff every fire department in the US. But, those ARE the big cities that are able to justify 4 or 5 guys per rig and also have many, many more rigs than the vast majority of fire departments in the US. It's unlikely that St. Louis or Richmond or Baltimore would ever "run out" of apparatus for their runs...a luxury that 99% of fire departments are not afforded.

    IMO, I think guys should put their passion and efforts into proposing & maintaining better staffing capable of operating two companies instead of bending over and getting politically raped with the Q dildo or trying to convince the rest of the world about how fabulous queernts are- if you dont have at least 8 guys and two officers on board, sorry. Aint gonna work for me. This battle has been waged in here before, and has been fought to a draw before. Lets just not do it again.
    First of all...ah yes the fabulous "let me spew my opinion THEN say let's not fight about it" mantra. Starting to take after Bobby, I see! Nice job

    We all understand that you have a hard on for the city way of doing things...and that's fine. I'd imagine the vast majority of us would LOVE to run with 5 guys per rig...but that simply isn't an option for most departments. No matter how much effort we put into it...there's no way our tax payers would approve adding 69 positions to my department (more than quadrupling our current staffing). And that's turning 3 quints into 3 engines and 3 trucks...hell even if we just brought our staffing up to 5 on a quint that's adding 18 positions, nearly doubling our staffing.

    And in my time on the department we *GASP* have only made ONE parking lot...and that was an accelerant started fire in a building that I wouldn't have entered if I had the whole FDNY at my disposal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company. Truck Company evolutions were then either not performed at all, or not aggressively enough. Got to the point where if we went out the door with the vollies Mon through Fri from 6am to 6pm and we pulled a line, I would tuck an axe into the belt of my SCBA and leave a 6ft hook in the hallway, cause that was it......you never knew how long or if the help was coming. Also cant tell you how many times I wish I had another 35' ladder, or another 28', or a 20' straight ladder.
    So did I miss the part where the type of truck you were riding on had anything to do with the outcome of the incident? You arrived and were given an assignment, point blank. The IC's decision determined the situation you describe, not the fact that you were riding a quint.

    The ladder argument is a weak one. I have never been to a fire where all three 24 footers, a 35 footer an 18 footer, three 16 footers and a 14 footer were all thrown. This is what we arrive with on 2 engine companies and a quint. Could a situation arrise where we needed more one day? Sure. Is it likely? No way.

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.
    All major, urban departments. My original point stands. Not to mention that what any of those departments choose to do has little to no affect on how mine operates.

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    IMO, I think guys should put their passion and efforts into proposing & maintaining better staffing capable of operating two companies instead of bending over and getting politically raped with the Q dildo or trying to convince the rest of the world about how fabulous queernts are- if you dont have at least 8 guys and two officers on board, sorry. Aint gonna work for me. This battle has been waged in here before, and has been fought to a draw before. Lets just not do it again.
    I'm now convinced you are truely delusional.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ATFDFF View Post
    EVERYTHING you describe there is a command issue...NOT an issue of your apparatus arriving with a pump or not. If yours did not have a pump, that same chief could just as easily have told you to grab a line off of another engine.

    And wouldn't the fact the structure was leveled probably be due to the fact that water wasn't applied? A task that your "truck" company was assigned? I've never seen a structure be lost because a primary wasn't done.



    And how many fires did you NOT use every available ladder? I'd imagine that was moreso the case than when you needed more ladders. Why not grab one off another rig? Also, perhaps it was a problem with your department's specification...but there are plenty of quints out there with very sizable ground ladder compliments.



    I don't know why, because I have better things to do than buff every fire department in the US. But, those ARE the big cities that are able to justify 4 or 5 guys per rig and also have many, many more rigs than the vast majority of fire departments in the US. It's unlikely that St. Louis or Richmond or Baltimore would ever "run out" of apparatus for their runs...a luxury that 99% of fire departments are not afforded.



    First of all...ah yes the fabulous "let me spew my opinion THEN say let's not fight about it" mantra. Starting to take after Bobby, I see! Nice job

    We all understand that you have a hard on for the city way of doing things...and that's fine. I'd imagine the vast majority of us would LOVE to run with 5 guys per rig...but that simply isn't an option for most departments. No matter how much effort we put into it...there's no way our tax payers would approve adding 69 positions to my department (more than quadrupling our current staffing). And that's turning 3 quints into 3 engines and 3 trucks...hell even if we just brought our staffing up to 5 on a quint that's adding 18 positions, nearly doubling our staffing.

    And in my time on the department we *GASP* have only made ONE parking lot...and that was an accelerant started fire in a building that I wouldn't have entered if I had the whole FDNY at my disposal.
    Well said, and I agree on all points.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Cool Truck

    Good looking Truck..... Nice compartment spacing and lots of compartments, good decision.

    As far as the other discussion regarding "true Truck" or "Quints" my .02 is which gives you the most bang for your buck? Which serves your Community and Response Area(s) the best? That's the right one for your FD.....

    As far as operating in either role; we have evidence that a well trained, aggressive, fundamentally sound and "well oiled" Crew can operate safely and efficiently in both roles. It's like Chief Mittendorf says, "the C.O. of the Quint must focus their training on operating as both a Truck and Engine Company." As one of the C.Os on our Truck (Quint) I focus primarily on Truck Operations but also as an Engine Company that way when the Medic Engines are delayed we can start Fire Attack or whatever is needed. Our last F/S we operated primarily as an Engine Company and then switched back to our Truck Company once the fire was under control. It was pretty cool when I was completing the report to say that most of the on scene operations were conducted by my Truck Company. LOL.

    So again I say "Good looking Truck..... Nice compartment spacing and lots of compartments, good decision."
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company. Truck Company evolutions were then either not performed at all, or not aggressively enough. Got to the point where if we went out the door with the vollies Mon through Fri from 6am to 6pm and we pulled a line, I would tuck an axe into the belt of my SCBA and leave a 6ft hook in the hallway, cause that was it......you never knew how long or if the help was coming. Also cant tell you how many times I wish I had another 35' ladder, or another 28', or a 20' straight ladder.

    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.
    Sorry brother, gotta go against you on this one. My last company ran a quint, a 75' Sutphen straight stick. We had absolutely no problems such as the ones that you describe. Must have been an issue with how your department ran the apparatus.

    At 1 house Dalton ran a 100' tower with a pump and tank, a big @$$ quint. That truck was run as a truck company strictly, but it was nice having pump capability when everything went to hell in a hand basket and we went defensive. No having to designate and engine company to pump the pipe, the truck could handle that job its self. Same with my 75' straight stick, no need for a designated engine company to pump the pipe, ladder 3 could handle the job its self. For the most part, ladder 3 was run strictly as a truck company, but if we knew that the first in engine was going to be delayed, it was nice to know we had a way to get the wet stuff on the red stuff until the engine company could get there.

    Not every city in the U.S. can afford to staff a station with a full engine and ladder company where a ladder truck is needed. Sure, Dalton would love to run an engine and ladder company out of 3 house and 2 house. But for now,especially until the economy gets better they'll have to settle fo a ladder at 3 house and an engine at 2 house. 3 house could use an engine to go with the stick because of all of the 3 and 4 story residential and commercial structures, and 2 house could use a 100' platform to go with the engine there because it is a highly industrialized district. But try explaining that to city councilmen and expect them to get it.

    So, until then, the quint, which has a squeaky clean resord, at 3 house will continue to fill both roles as needed until the Dalton Fire Department can get a little room to maneuver with the city council about adding extra companies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company.
    How about the thousands of structural fires that go out every day in the US (via fire service extinguishment) when there isn't even an aerial on scene? The rural departments like mine that train in performing truck ops from the engine and rescue since there isn't an aerial device in our county, or on our box assignments? Blaming the fact that truck ops weren't being conducted correctly is a command and management issue, not a quint issue.

    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond?
    Richmond has six quints, a PUC, and a pumper on order as I type this.

    This battle has been waged in here before, and has been fought to a draw before. Lets just not do it again.
    So you instigate the argument by making anecdotal references to some department lack of aggressive truck work and blame it on the rig the arrived on. Then you continue with the "queernts" nonsense. THEN you tell us that we shouldn't discuss this topic again? I don't think that forum members are going to abide that request.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 11-07-2011 at 02:00 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I personally (as a member assigned to a queernt) have been to several fires that resulted in total losses due to the fact that when we (dispatched as a Truck Co, Officer and 3, career dept augmenting an otherwise fully volunteer box assignment) were ordered to go in service as an engine company. Truck Company evolutions were then either not performed at all, or not aggressively enough. Got to the point where if we went out the door with the vollies Mon through Fri from 6am to 6pm and we pulled a line, I would tuck an axe into the belt of my SCBA and leave a 6ft hook in the hallway, cause that was it......you never knew how long or if the help was coming. Also cant tell you how many times I wish I had another 35' ladder, or another 28', or a 20' straight ladder.

    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.

    IMO, I think guys should put their passion and efforts into proposing & maintaining better staffing capable of operating two companies instead of bending over and getting politically raped with the Q dildo or trying to convince the rest of the world about how fabulous queernts are- if you dont have at least 8 guys and two officers on board, sorry. Aint gonna work for me. This battle has been waged in here before, and has been fought to a draw before. Lets just not do it again.
    AGAIN,for the Reading IMPAIRED(FWD): You have NEVER seen my rig,NOR the area in which it operates. This TRUCK has been instrumental in many good saves in the short 2 yrs it has been in service. It serves OUR unique needs in the way it was intended and it does a VERY good job at it. IF you jog your memory you MAY remember I put an above normal ground ladder complement on the vehicle. I can put three truck companies and an Engine company to work off the tool load it carries.AND,as I mentioned earlier,I don't need a separate Engine to make it work,a valuable thing during the day manpower reduction. You don't like a pump and tank on a Ladder;FINE. Our last one didn't have one either but we are VERY happy with our decision to have them on this one. As far as St. Louie goes,I have an idea that EXPENSE of replacing the units factored into their decision. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 11-07-2011 at 09:50 PM.

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    Deleted by author,duplicate post
    Last edited by Rescue101; 11-07-2011 at 11:50 AM. Reason: Duplicate post

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If Queernts are so great, why is St. Louis going away from them? Or how about Richmond? Baltimore tried it....never again.....It's late right now, is it 0214 or 0314? Given a clear head I could probably think of a dozen other places.
    Get your facts right below you start typing some more of your bs. Richmond isn't going away from Quints!

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    You know, with the exception of very few (like Rescue101 and CaptOldTimer), I have been a member of the forums a very long time although I have very few posts. The reason I have few posts is because I hate getting involved in a discussion that starts off decent and then spins wildly out of control.

    FireMech1 presents us with his new aerial for discussion and this thread gets out of control regarding how a truck company should be operated. Come on guys.....enough! Lets get back to the intent of this thread!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcatee1 View Post
    You know, with the exception of very few (like Rescue101 and CaptOldTimer), I have been a member of the forums a very long time although I have very few posts. The reason I have few posts is because I hate getting involved in a discussion that starts off decent and then spins wildly out of control.

    FireMech1 presents us with his new aerial for discussion and this thread gets out of control regarding how a truck company should be operated. Come on guys.....enough! Lets get back to the intent of this thread!
    Ditto. Same here.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmcatee1 View Post
    You know, with the exception of very few (like Rescue101 and CaptOldTimer), I have been a member of the forums a very long time although I have very few posts. The reason I have few posts is because I hate getting involved in a discussion that starts off decent and then spins wildly out of control.

    FireMech1 presents us with his new aerial for discussion and this thread gets out of control regarding how a truck company should be operated. Come on guys.....enough! Lets get back to the intent of this thread!
    Why I thought we were: Admiring FM1's new piece and REALIGNING Buff's misguided Azz. Looks like a win/win to ME! T.C,

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Why I thought we were: Admiring FM1's new piece and REALIGNING Buff's misguided Azz. Looks like a win/win to ME! T.C,
    Now that's funny!

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