Chicago forcefed 111 by "justice" department

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

Yo dude, did you get YOUR job through nepotism? PS Your " close to a decade" in the fire department does not impress me.

[thedude01]

Yo dude, did you get YOUR job through nepotism? PS Your " close to a decade" in the fire department does not impress me.

That doesn't impress you. Darn... Because at the end of the day, if I don't impress some complete stranger off an internet site, I just can't live with myself........... Get over yourself tough guy.

[FFFRED]

I think you missed the point "Fred", all I'm saying is that before crying and having your little pitty party about how you should be hired and not the blacks because you're a better test taker, why is it that the race argument always comes up and white nepotism hires don't get the time of day? Whens the last time you saw an article in the paper about how a group of whites were hired because of inside connections and not because of experience?

I think you missed the point.

Men like us don't support nepotism, favortism, croynism, hand-outs, set-asides, quotas in any fashion, method, policy or form.

It seems like no matter what city one looks to one minority group or another is demanding standards be removed or lowered in an attempt to get people with their skin color or common ancestry hired. Is this or is this not racism? Do you condemn racism in all its forms? Do you support high-relevant race-blind objective civil service hiring standards?

The facts illustrate that there is little reason to believe your fantasy about widespread "white" favortism being a scourge that must be confronted in todays fire service. And there is sufficent evidence that certain groups (mostly black fraternal groups) attempt to claim poor performance on the part of many individuals who just so happen to have common race/ethnicity somehow justifies discrimination of those who have proven themselves and that those individuals must be judged differently with a handicap because they are black!

Do you feel this is paternalistic and condecending? Are blacks equal as men as to whites and Asians and Hispanics or should they be judged on a sliding scale due to their skin color?

And if you have a legitimate argument you will answer my questions as listed in my above posts.

FTM-PTB

PS- It is IMPOSSIBLE to get on FDNY by who you know...you must past the same civil service exam and everyone gets hired in rank list order regardless of who they know.

[FFFRED]

Evidence? I'm not some news reporter, just a guy who has been in the fire service for close to a decade and have seen plenty of nepotism over the years.

To answer a few of your questions. In order to get hired I think showing some sort of initive before applying should be taken into consideration. Military, college, prior fire experience, EMS experience, you have them all you should be a shoe in. Physical standards a must, CPAT is a good start but not a solve all. Written testing should also be weighed in, and personality testing. I've met some ppl that are great test takers but manage to **** everyone off in the firehouse on a daily bases. And there are plenty of Black Americans with plenty of experience that don't get hired because perhaps of cronism.

You find common cause with black fraternal groups and their lawyers who look to undermine merit and fitness standards within civil service laws and then you advocate the above?!?!?!?

Explain to us how the above isn't more subjective and more prone to favortism, bias and likely to result in burdensom lawsuits?

A list created by those who can prove via a written exam and physical agility exam who is most qualified and thus most likely to survive probie school and most likely to succeed as a fireman is far superior to your "who you know" dog and pony show you described above!

Wow I can' only imagine what a wonderful meritocracy your little burb must be.

FTM-PTB

[FireMedic049]

Military has firefighters and EMT's

True, however there are not enough spots in the military to reasonably be a feeder to the metro FDs in the country.

College has EMT and Paramedic programs.

Yes, some colleges offer Fire and EMS training courses, however a basic training course is not exactly the same thing as "experience". Besides, why should prior experience necessarily be a requirement when a recruit will be attending a Fire Academy anyway once hired?

[FFFRED]

True, however there are not enough spots in the military to reasonably be a feeder to the metro FDs in the country.

Yes, some colleges offer Fire and EMS training courses, however a basic training course is not exactly the same thing as "experience". Besides, why should prior experience necessarily be a requirement when a recruit will be attending a Fire Academy anyway once hired?

Excellent points...and to expand on them.

The Military doesn't always let you pick and choose your job...you volunteered to serve them not for them to cater to your needs.

Furthermore while I consider it a BS excuse for 98% of applicants(I'm conceeding there are a few legit cases of poverty but I'm probably over compensating with a 2% figure) Asking 60,000 applicants for the FDNY to all obtain EMS certs for a firemans job exam that might hire 3000-4000 over the life of the list seems a bit unrealistic.

Second of all, why do they need relevant job training when we will send them thru the accademy and teach them everything they need to know. While it would make sense to require prospective applicants to take a prep course and prepare for a job relevant exam like LSATS MCATS...etc are to their fields of endevor, it has been cited as a "barrier to employment" for minorities who just can't be bothered to prepare themselves for a competitive job market and profesional career field.

Your ignorance on this subject matter is staggering...perhaps before comming to the defense of hustlers and bigots you should do some research (the links I provided are a good start) and then get back to us.

FTM-PTB

[FWDbuff]

Dude, just curious- Why cant the minority applicants study to take the exam and obtain a position based on their own hard work and merit?

[tajm611]

They do.


Except there are certain political groups that live for suits like this and talk those who didn't make it into suing. It's happened here at my much smaller department and is absolutely happening there. I think it's absolutely foolish to think minority applicants are only getting in through law suits, but if thats how you get by, more power to you.

[FWDbuff]

They do.


Except there are certain political groups that live for suits like this and talk those who didn't make it into suing. It's happened here at my much smaller department and is absolutely happening there. I think it's absolutely foolish to think minority applicants are only getting in through law suits, but if thats how you get by, more power to you.

So let me ask you this......Since caucasians are now the minority (officially, by census) in certain big cities, we get to sue to get on the job, right? After all, it's only fair..........????? Right?

[tajm611]

You are completely oblivious to what I just said. That's fine, have a nice day.

[snowball]

You are completely oblivious to what I just said. That's fine, have a nice day.

I think he was stumped by the last sentence. As am I. It seems to make a complete circle. Clarify plz.

[FWDbuff]

You are completely oblivious to what I just said. That's fine, have a nice day.

Some minority applicants do get through of their own hard work and merit.

Many get through via lawsuits, dumbed down standards (whether they be dumbed down written tests or easier physical testing.) That being said, in recent times official census tabulations have determined that white (caucasians) are now the minority in many cities.

Therefore, I think they should now sue to get on the job or take advantage of minority hiring standards that many cities are currently employing (whether they are voluntary or court ordered.) After all, whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

[MIKEYLIKESIT]

That doesn't impress you. Darn... Because at the end of the day, if I don't impress some complete stranger off an internet site, I just can't live with myself........... Get over yourself tough guy.

You didnt answer my question. You say you see guys hired all the time via nepotism. Are you one of them?