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  1. #41
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    FyredUp....please don't try and apply common sense and logic to any of your firefighting tactics.



    for the record...we charge the line when it needs to be charged. Could be at front door, could be at fire room door on 2nd floor. Nothing higher than a 3rd floor in my area so I won't comment on hi-rises.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?


  2. #42
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Sure, and you could get killed in an apparatus accident en route to the scene. Now can we get back to serious, reality based discussion of the topic, or do you want to play stupid games with what ifs?

    I said quite clearly, and concisely, that a 360 and a good size-up were important elements to a proper hose stretch. An EXPERIENCED crew will know when it is proper to stretch dry and when it is smarter to charge the line at the door. I also never said to advance a dry line into a smoke or heat filled area. Seriously, only a complete moron would advance a dryline into heavy smoke and heat.

    A warehouse, or big box store, fire can mean stretches of hundreds feet into the building. How many firefighters can you muster to manhandle 200 to 400 feet of charged 2 1/2 inside a building? Because even with 2 inch you aren't going over 300 feet with out high friction loss for higher flows.

    Okay let's talk about your scenarios...

    Basement fire where you fall through the floor...360 and size-up SHOULD tell you the fire is in the basement. If there is NO IDEA where the fire is the line goes in charged. I never advocated going in with an uncharged line if you don't know where the fire is or heat and smoke conditions called for a charged line.

    If your 360 or size-up is so poor that you have no indication that the roof is compromised a charged handline going in with you is the least of your concerns. I am curious though how a charged hoseline prevents you from being injured or killed as you are being crushed by the roof falling on you. Could you elaborate on this? I am willing to learn.

    I NEVER advocated crawling right up to the fire in a warehouse, or anywhere else for that matter. I have clealy stated repeatedly that you would advance to a safe place, or dstance, fom the fire before calling for water. If you do that the risk from explosion (Backdraft anyone?) inside a warehouse would be minimized. Not every warehouse contains flammable liquids, chemicals, or explosives. Some have things like food, paper goods, clothing, lumber, building materials, you know Class A materials. A good program of pre-planning would help with tactical decision making.

    Again, if conditions clearly call for a charged line then that is what you should enter with. Perhaps less experienced crews should ALWAYS enter with a charged line. I am not telling anyone what they should do. I am saying what I would do, what MY FDs do.

    Easy old timer.. You don't have control over accidents while responding.. But however, you do have control of wether or not you've got a charged hose line in a fire building.. And I don't know what you meant by saying "experienced" in all caps but I'll be the nice guy and ignore that.. I could through ou scenarios all day.. YOu say perform a 360.. What if I've got smoke showing on condos that are attached for a half mile... No ones wrong here.. Like I said a while ago, it ALL DEPENDS On where your work, what your sops say, and whether you want to burn alive or not... Lol joking joking
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  3. #43
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    I think FyredUp is here to pick fights not discuss tactics seriously though. I wasn't saying your wrong and you didn't have to respond all smart like.. Be calm, ffing is stressfull enough
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  4. #44
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasldixon33 View Post
    Easy old timer.. You don't have control over accidents while responding.. But however, you do have control of wether or not you've got a charged hose line in a fire building.. And I don't know what you meant by saying "experienced" in all caps but I'll be the nice guy and ignore that.. I could through ou scenarios all day.. YOu say perform a 360.. What if I've got smoke showing on condos that are attached for a half mile... No ones wrong here.. Like I said a while ago, it ALL DEPENDS On where your work, what your sops say, and whether you want to burn alive or not... Lol joking joking
    If you have smoke showing on condos, you advance dry to a point where you are still safe, charge the line, then advance and kill the fire.

    Obviously if the building is a half mile long a 360 by the first arriving unit is impractical. So how many condos do you have in YOUR area that are 2600 feet long of connected buildings? Or is this just another made up thing to prove whatever you point is?

    No sorry TommyBoy, you don't get to tell me I am wrong for the tactics of my departments over multiple posts, and then try to make yourself look better by now saying that nobody is wrong.

    Yeah, burning alive is ****ing hysterical...
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  5. #45
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasldixon33 View Post
    I think FyredUp is here to pick fights not discuss tactics seriously though. I wasn't saying your wrong and you didn't have to respond all smart like.. Be calm, ffing is stressfull enough
    And I never told you YOU were wrong in what YOU do. YOU argued with me and posted ludicrous scenarios to try and prove me and my depatment's procedures wrong. Let me type this really slow for you so maybe you can comprehend it this time...I don't give a flying turd how you do what you do on your FD, and I don't care if you don't like how we do things either. I am not trying to change YOUR mind and you for damn sure won't change mine.

    By the way, I did ask you a simple question related to one of your laughable scenarios above and you failed to answer it so I will ask you again. How does a charged hoseline prevent you from being injured or killed when the roof collapses on you?

    I guess I have a couple of other questions for you: How long have you been a firefighter? Are you an Atlanta firefighter?
    Last edited by FyredUp; 02-11-2012 at 12:26 AM.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  6. #46
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    The only correct answer is "depends".
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  7. #47
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    FyredUp.. I never once said you were wrong. I've said several times that it DEPENDS!!!!. And in the post were I made up the crazy scenerios, I was actually responded to the post above me from someone else.. And yes we do have condos/ town homes that stretch connected that far. . I guess I'll have to forgive you for being grumpy, because that tend to come with age.. How can you let posts on a forum upset you so!?!?
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  8. #48
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    The only correct answer is "depends".


    agreed!!! I should have just said that only
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  9. #49
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thomasldixon33 View Post
    FyredUp.. I never once said you were wrong. I've said several times that it DEPENDS!!!!. And in the post were I made up the crazy scenerios, I was actually responded to the post above me from someone else.. And yes we do have condos/ town homes that stretch connected that far. . I guess I'll have to forgive you for being grumpy, because that tend to come with age.. How can you let posts on a forum upset you so!?!?
    You are a funny man. Nice diversion going to the old age and grumpy thing. I guess when you can't answer a few simple questions this is all you have.

    How does a charged hoseline stop you fom being injured or killed when the roof collapses on you?

    How long have you been a firefighter?

    Are you a City of Atlanta firefighter? I have a friend on the Atlants FD.

    Are you seriously telling me you have condo complexes that are 2600 feet long? Give me the address because I would LOVE to Google that and look at some pictures of a complex that size.
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  10. #50
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Didn't mean to hurt any feelings! If I said you were wrong, I apologize!! That's not what I meant when posting anything. I was just trying to explain my thought process.

    -No I do not work for the city of Atlanta.. I work for a county that borders Fulton (the county that atl is considered to be in).

    - no the housing I was speeking of is not 2600''..

    - and a collapse roof would not always kill you but could possibly leave you unexpectedly surrounded by fire.. And when I threw this scenario out I WANSNT RESPONDING TO YOU. And yes it's all very unlikely and could be avoided with an experienced crew (which unfortuantely won't always be the case)

    - I've been a fireman for 8 years... (no I'm sure not a tenth as long as you) At a house that runs a combined total of about 7000-8000 calls a year between 1 rescue- 1 engine- and 1 tiller truck (which only responded to fires, confirmed pins, and spec op calls.. The truck I've been on for the past 4 years) NOt bragging or saying that's a lot, just want you to understand I do have a little EXPERIENCE!

    I never once was trying to be smart or say you were wrong.. Seriously I meant no negative things towards you!! Can't we just all get along!?!? I've read a lot of posts on this forum that you've posted and you always give good advice.. I was just saying I might do things differently! Be happy!! Oh and happy valentines day!!
    Last edited by TillamanTrk1; 02-12-2012 at 03:24 AM.
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  11. #51
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TillamanTrk1 View Post
    Didn't mean to hurt any feelings! If I said you were wrong, I apologize!! That's not what I meant when posting anything. I was just trying to explain my thought process.

    -No I do not work for the city of Atlanta.. I work for a county that borders Fulton (the county that atl is considered to be in).

    - no the housing I was speeking of is not 2600''..

    - and a collapse roof would not always kill you but could possibly leave you unexpectedly surrounded by fire.. And when I threw this scenario out I WANSNT RESPONDING TO YOU. And yes it's all very unlikely and could be avoided with an experienced crew (which unfortuantely won't always be the case)

    - I've been a fireman for 8 years... (no I'm sure not a tenth as long as you) At a house that runs a combined total of about 7000-8000 calls a year between 1 rescue- 1 engine- and 1 tiller truck (which only responded to fires, confirmed pins, and spec op calls.. The truck I've been on for the past 4 years) NOt bragging or saying that's a lot, just want you to understand I do have a little EXPERIENCE!

    I never once was trying to be smart or say you were wrong.. Seriously I meant no negative things towards you!! Can't we just all get along!?!? I've read a lot of posts on this forum that you've posted and you always give good advice.. I was just saying I might do things differently! Be happy!! Oh and happy valentines day!!
    Alright Tommy Boy we are cool. Why did you change your name?

    Happy Valentines Day to you too!
    “The person who risks nothing, does nothing, has nothing, is nothing, and becomes nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrow, but he simply cannot learn and feel and change and grow and love and live.” Leo F. Buscaglia

    This place gets weirder and weirder every day...

  12. #52
    Forum Member TillamanTrk1's Avatar
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    Well.. I realized my name wasn't very original.. But you can call me tommy boy! that's actually one of the many nicknames at the FD..
    "....train as if your life depends on it, because one day it could.."
    .....Leather Head N6A
    Tillerman..... The best job in the FD!!!

  13. #53
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    There are some interesting replies here. Like others have said, it depends. There are very few absolutes in the fire service.

    We stretch the line dry, as far as conditions safely permit. I've called for water in the street, the yard, the hallway, the fire floor, and yes, even in the fire room. In all cases conditions dictated. In all cases size up gave us clues as to what we were dealing with.

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