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  1. #1
    Forum Member ChathamVFD9921's Avatar
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    Default Another question...

    In the State of Ohio,

    If you are a member of a Volunteer Fire Department,

    Do you have to have a fire card? (VFF, FF1, 2?)

    Or can you just have an EMS card? (EMT- B, I , P?).

    And,

    If you are an officer, what NIMS certifications, fire/ems certifications are REQUIRED?


  2. #2
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    See my post to the "Old school" thread. You just need a 36 hour card to be any member of a VFD, including Chief. As far as NIMS, meh. NIMS is more for big disasters, which for a small community is rare. Usually you're going to have mutual aid and as long as your chief knows his resources, somebody in your MA response will have the skills or equipment you need. I think basic company operations is more important to have. An officer should have a basic fire officer course, but the state doesn't require it.

  3. #3
    Forum Member ChathamVFD9921's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    See my post to the "Old school" thread. You just need a 36 hour card to be any member of a VFD, including Chief. As far as NIMS, meh. NIMS is more for big disasters, which for a small community is rare. Usually you're going to have mutual aid and as long as your chief knows his resources, somebody in your MA response will have the skills or equipment you need. I think basic company operations is more important to have. An officer should have a basic fire officer course, but the state doesn't require it.
    Im just looking for what the state "requires". But thank you for the response.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChathamVFD9921 View Post
    Im just looking for what the state "requires". But thank you for the response.
    Ohio REQUIRES you to have a 36 hour card for VFD minimum, 120 hour minimum for full time paid. There's no other requirement for officers. You do get points for your ISO rating for training. (ISO rating is how many insurance companies base your fire insurance rates for the citizens in your district) You are not required to have first responder or EMT certification for a fire dept., but if that's all you have you can ONLY respond in an EMS role. You CANNOT provide ANY firefighting services without a firefighter cert. You can't drive the truck, you can't squirt water. Your boys are skating on thin ice, and there's sharks in the water.

  5. #5
    Forum Member ChathamVFD9921's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Your boys are skating on thin ice, and there's sharks in the water.
    I know this, and i have been doing everything i can to address it, but like i mentioned, the Chief hushes it up.

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    The state of LA has no minimum training standards for career or volunteer firefighters.

    We do not require volunteer Firefighters to have Firefighter I. All volunteer members complete an in house program that contains a large percentage of FFI material but omits the material that does not apply to our operations. they must demonstrtate identified skills and pass a 100 question written test in addition to completing a computer based FFI program.

    FFI is required to be hired as a full-time Firefighter. Currently all of our full-time staff are certified to FFII with several instructors and fire officers.

    EMS certification is not a requirement, but given it's 70% of our call volume, most volunteers get at least First Responder.

    That being said, we do require FFI for volunteers for promotion as it's a requirement of LSU Fire Training for many of thier speciality and advanced classes. It's also required to be eligable for disaster deployment.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChathamVFD9921 View Post
    I know this, and i have been doing everything i can to address it, but like i mentioned, the Chief hushes it up.
    If you've addressed it with the Chief, your next step is to go to HIS boss, ie; the Mayor or township trustees. Next is the state EMS board. You will be opening a can of worms, so it's up to you how far you go. What ever you do, have your ducks in a row and be tactful, there will certainly be backlash. How many others in your dept. are aware of this and are against it?

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    Forum Member ChathamVFD9921's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    If you've addressed it with the Chief, your next step is to go to HIS boss, ie; the Mayor or township trustees. Next is the state EMS board. You will be opening a can of worms, so it's up to you how far you go. What ever you do, have your ducks in a row and be tactful, there will certainly be backlash. How many others in your dept. are aware of this and are against it?
    Whats going on isnt illegal, just frustrating at times. Theres safety issues im concerned with that need to be addressed from the inside.

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    MembersZone Subscriber LVFD301's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    See my post to the "Old school" thread. You just need a 36 hour card to be any member of a VFD, including Chief. As far as NIMS, meh. NIMS is more for big disasters, which for a small community is rare. Usually you're going to have mutual aid and as long as your chief knows his resources, somebody in your MA response will have the skills or equipment you need. I think basic company operations is more important to have. An officer should have a basic fire officer course, but the state doesn't require it.

    Arrrrggghh....

    100 years of tradition, unimpeded by progress.

    Whether you like it or not, NIMS is the standard. It is not saved for a major disaster, if it is then no one will know it when that major disaster does hit.

    Maybe your area won't see the major disaster - but you may end up going to an area that will. Having lots of people come to an incident that have no knowledge of NIMS, simply because it was too tough to take the class, or it won't happen here, etc, is simply just another headache.

  10. #10
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The state of LA has no minimum training standards for career or volunteer firefighters.

    We do not require volunteer Firefighters to have Firefighter I. All volunteer members complete an in house program that contains a large percentage of FFI material but omits the material that does not apply to our operations. they must demonstrtate identified skills and pass a 100 question written test in addition to completing a computer based FFI program.

    FFI is required to be hired as a full-time Firefighter. Currently all of our full-time staff are certified to FFII with several instructors and fire officers.

    EMS certification is not a requirement, but given it's 70% of our call volume, most volunteers get at least First Responder.

    That being said, we do require FFI for volunteers for promotion as it's a requirement of LSU Fire Training for many of thier speciality and advanced classes. It's also required to be eligable for disaster deployment.

    What in the wide, wide, world of sports does this babbling diatribe have to do with a question specifically asked about OHIO? Geezus, sometimes you just need to shut the hell up and stop posting absolutely invalid information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    What in the wide, wide, world of sports does this babbling diatribe have to do with a question specifically asked about OHIO? Geezus, sometimes you just need to shut the hell up and stop posting absolutely invalid information.
    Just thought I would post for comparison, not that it's really any of your business.
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    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just thought I would post for comparison, not that it's really any of your business.
    No, the point is you are a ****ing martyr. Even in a topic where the original poster stated CLEARLY and CONCISELY the following in his first sentence:

    In the State of Ohio
    you have to once again try to justify your volly training program that gives no certification of any kind. The further you then state it isn't enough to get hired on that very same FD as a career member, or to get promoted. WHY would your FD intentionally create second class firefighters and then require that same basic FF1 class for employment or promotion?

    Stop posting irrelevant nonsense on topics simply to get your daily narcissistic attention need filled.
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    If your FD provides EMS response, yes you could be a member as a FR (AKA Emergency Medical Responder now), EMT, or medic. and run EMS. If you, as a member of a VFD would want to participate in fire activities then you will need aleast a FF1-A certification, and as a Full-time dept you are required to have FF2. And around here as a VFD you can respond to fire's as just a FR, or EMT, bc a squad is usually always on scene at any call that is responded to here, but does not participate any fire activities! But all in all it basically comes down to what your dept requires, if you do both Fire and EMS. But if you only do fire then yes you must have fire certification. And NIMS, officers are required 700,800,100,200,300, and 400. Especially if you have received a grant.

  14. #14
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    In Ohio 36 hr VFF is required obviously to be a volunteer as has already been said. However the 120 hr FF1 is the minimum for part time firefighting, and 240 hr FF 2 is required for a full time job.

    NIMS 100, 700 are now required for the state before you can even take the 36 hr test.

    Thank god most departments in our area are getting away from accepting the 36 hour card, it is nothing more than a license to kill yourself. There is no way that any person can learn enough about firefighting to perform effectively and SAFELY on the fireground in that joke of a class.

    I was a 36 for a short time and have helped teach probably about 4 or 5 and it never ceases to amaze me that here we are in the 21st century and this archaic certification is still valid in the State of Ohio.

    I know there is a pretty good sized group of Firefighters, Chiefs, and Instructors who are lobbying for the state to require all firefighters to obtain a FF1 card or give up firefighting, but I sadly think that nothing will change until some volunteer firefighters die. God forbid, because I would never wish that on anyone, but its only a matter of time. Plenty of states require FF1 and many even require FF2 certification to be even a volunteer firefighter. Fires I go in when I'm at the volunteer house are just as hot and just as dangerous as the ones I go in at work, so in my opinion there is no valid reason for the 36 hr card to exist. Not to mention that I believe the FF 2 course could be longer, they have recently added requirements to the class, such as EVOC but I believe that RIT and a few other modules should be added to the class as well.

    Plenty of states fully fund firefighter and EMS training for the local departments, obviously the economy is bad, but it would be nice to see Ohio get with the program and start picking up the tab for every fire department across the state as others do.

    At least Ohio now requires CEs to renew your fire cards. I found it hilarious that people who had been dead for years still had active certifications.
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    Quote Originally Posted by backsteprescue123 View Post
    In Ohio 36 hr VFF is required obviously to be a volunteer as has already been said. However the 120 hr FF1 is the minimum for part time firefighting, and 240 hr FF 2 is required for a full time job.

    NIMS 100, 700 are now required for the state before you can even take the 36 hr test.

    Thank god most departments in our area are getting away from accepting the 36 hour card, it is nothing more than a license to kill yourself. There is no way that any person can learn enough about firefighting to perform effectively and SAFELY on the fireground in that joke of a class.

    I was a 36 for a short time and have helped teach probably about 4 or 5 and it never ceases to amaze me that here we are in the 21st century and this archaic certification is still valid in the State of Ohio.

    I know there is a pretty good sized group of Firefighters, Chiefs, and Instructors who are lobbying for the state to require all firefighters to obtain a FF1 card or give up firefighting, but I sadly think that nothing will change until some volunteer firefighters die. God forbid, because I would never wish that on anyone, but its only a matter of time. Plenty of states require FF1 and many even require FF2 certification to be even a volunteer firefighter. Fires I go in when I'm at the volunteer house are just as hot and just as dangerous as the ones I go in at work, so in my opinion there is no valid reason for the 36 hr card to exist. Not to mention that I believe the FF 2 course could be longer, they have recently added requirements to the class, such as EVOC but I believe that RIT and a few other modules should be added to the class as well.

    Plenty of states fully fund firefighter and EMS training for the local departments, obviously the economy is bad, but it would be nice to see Ohio get with the program and start picking up the tab for every fire department across the state as others do.

    At least Ohio now requires CEs to renew your fire cards. I found it hilarious that people who had been dead for years still had active certifications.
    Just one point of information.

    Less than 10 states require FFI for volunteer personnel. And in many of those states, the number of volunteer firefighters and in some cases,volunteer departments, are falling faster than the Washington Redskins.

    Again, the more requirements you add, and the more additions you make to the requirements, the fewer people will have the time to volunteer, leading to the need for more paid personnel that likely most communties can't afford.

    At what point do the requirements become to burdensome for the communities to absorb?
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    MembersZone Subscriber CKirk922's Avatar
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    All I know is that in Ohio, according to State code 1, paragraph 7, section 3, part A, subnote 432. (point) 7, you must have at least a GREEN CARD.
    A coward stands by and watches wrongs committed without saying a word...Any opinions expressed are purely my own and not necessarily reflective of the views of my former departments

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Just one point of information.

    Less than 10 states require FFI for volunteer personnel. And in many of those states, the number of volunteer firefighters and in some cases,volunteer departments, are falling faster than the Washington Redskins.

    Again, the more requirements you add, and the more additions you make to the requirements, the fewer people will have the time to volunteer, leading to the need for more paid personnel that likely most communties can't afford.

    At what point do the requirements become to burdensome for the communities to absorb?
    I don't understand how just because someone is volunteer they need less training....

    Maybe if the state was to simply add to the hours of the 36 hr VFF class... if they could double it to 72 hours that would be a nice compliment to the 120 and 240 hr courses. Maybe give a person with a 36 hr card 3 years to obtain the rest of the training towards a 120 card then let them test for Fire 1.

    I believe a 72 hour course would better prepare recruits for firefighting.

    Not trying to argue, just throwing my opinion out there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by backsteprescue123 View Post
    I don't understand how just because someone is volunteer they need less training....

    I cans ee your point, in a way. First of all there is the simple reality that somne don't like to accept that volunteers simply have less time available for training. Unlike career members who are trained while they are paid as a part of thier jobs, volunteers must attend firefighter training in addition to their full-time jobs. While I fully agree that fire is fire, irregardless of the status of the responders, the availability o f training time needs to be considered as a prt of the equation.

    The other factor here is that most volunteer departments provide less services and cover a leesser varitiy of hazards in thier community than thier career counterparts. While I understand that this is not always the case (my previous VFD, as well as several neighboring VFDs, would be an example of this)
    , it often is. My point here is that the fewer hazards a department covers, the less hazard specific training they require.

    I will fullya gree that in a perfect world, every volunteer woulsd have the same training as a career member, but if we to maintain the volunteer fire service, which frankly for a whole boatload of communities is the only fire protection game in town, and always will be, there are compromises in the demand we are starting to make.


    Maybe if the state was to simply add to the hours of the 36 hr VFF class... if they could double it to 72 hours that would be a nice compliment to the 120 and 240 hr courses. Maybe give a person with a 36 hr card 3 years to obtain the rest of the training towards a 120 card then let them test for Fire 1.

    I believe a 72 hour course would better prepare recruits for firefighting.

    Not trying to argue, just throwing my opinion out there.
    A 72 hour course may be acceptable. I have always been a component of a basic course covering the absolute basis, with a series of modules that the department can choose to send thier members to. Again, this is simply being realistic that this is all about time management.
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  19. #19
    Forum Member backsteprescue123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I cans ee your point, in a way. First of all there is the simple reality that somne don't like to accept that volunteers simply have less time available for training. Unlike career members who are trained while they are paid as a part of thier jobs, volunteers must attend firefighter training in addition to their full-time jobs. While I fully agree that fire is fire, irregardless of the status of the responders, the availability o f training time needs to be considered as a prt of the equation.

    The other factor here is that most volunteer departments provide less services and cover a leesser varitiy of hazards in thier community than thier career counterparts. While I understand that this is not always the case (my previous VFD, as well as several neighboring VFDs, would be an example of this), it often is. My point here is that the fewer hazards a department covers, the less hazard specific training they require.
    I definitely can understand where you are coming from. Luckily the combo department that I am on has decided to no longer recognize the 36 hr class and requires all probationaries to get Firefighter 1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by backsteprescue123 View Post
    I definitely can understand where you are coming from. Luckily the combo department that I am on has decided to no longer recognize the 36 hr class and requires all probationaries to get Firefighter 1.
    Just out of curiousity, has that had an effect on the number of members? And if so, what effect has it had on operations?
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