Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 68

Thread: Tankers

  1. #21
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    6

    Default

    We use the 2.5" NST to 3" Storz arrangement. It is quicker than threaded fittings, but after fooling with one, I like the camlocks better. When the 3" Storz freezes (usually below 15 degrees) to a connection it is almost impossible to break loose and the camlocks seem to slide better.
    Just be sure to put a drain on the fill fitting, or at the hydrant to relieve pressure, or you can get a nice bath when you disconnect. Ok in summer, but very uncomfortable in winter.


  2. #22
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Generally speaking,at least HERE, mains are pressurized and no way in hell will you be able to draw a vacumn on one with a vacumn tanker. Our new tanker will be a Vac for the reasons Walt outlined. Even with AMA,we're alone for a few minutes. The Vac tanker can haul two loads in that time with minimal crew, something you CANNOT do with conventional tankers. I've worked around conventional tankers for a LONG time, compared to a Vac in THIS area you can haul TWICE the water(with a Vac) with LESS than half the manpower AND you don't need a source pumper to do it. FWIW you can load and dump a vac tanker CONVENTIONALLY if you so desire. Given the advantages of their inherent high performance in vac mode,I don't know why you would. T.C.
    On a 6-8" main you definitely CAN pull a vacuum. The incident I saw happen caused air to be suck into the pluming of a house down the road from the hydrant when the occupant opened a faucet. The occupant just happened to be the manager of the county water system.

  3. #23
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    224

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by wfr1409 View Post
    We use the 2.5" NST to 3" Storz arrangement. It is quicker than threaded fittings, but after fooling with one, I like the camlocks better. When the 3" Storz freezes (usually below 15 degrees) to a connection it is almost impossible to break loose and the camlocks seem to slide better.
    Just be sure to put a drain on the fill fitting, or at the hydrant to relieve pressure, or you can get a nice bath when you disconnect. Ok in summer, but very uncomfortable in winter.
    Good point. I suppose that's why the ski industry has been using cam-locks for decades on their snowmaking hoses! They even pump compressed air through them.

    The second paragraph is also a good point. I always wondered about that- even if your fill lines are supplied off a PDV equipped manifold, as soon as the gate valve for THAT outlet is closed, you're isolated from the dump valve.

  4. #24
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    On a 6-8" main you definitely CAN pull a vacuum. The incident I saw happen caused air to be suck into the pluming of a house down the road from the hydrant when the occupant opened a faucet. The occupant just happened to be the manager of the county water system.
    Could be. You couldn't do it on OUR Downtown water system with two vac trucks loading.But you WOULD destroy the see thru suction hose. Our mains with very few exceptions a minumim of 12" and 80-100psi. T.C.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 08-17-2012 at 09:44 AM.

  5. #25
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    284

    Default

    While I think that vacuum tankers are a great idea, they're certainly not for everyone. Several other local departments have gotten them and love them, but they're not for us.

    Why might you ask?

    Cost. The three departments that recently bought vacuum tankers paid $90-100k more than what our new tanker cost.

    Accessibility. We seldom ever draft from an open water source, mainly filling from hydrants. Almost any open water source around here is at least 100' further than you could drive a tanker. Should we actually be in a situation where we are able to use an open water source, we carry a 450GPM floating pump.

    Maneuverability. All vacuum tankers use round tanks, which adds length and/or height versus a comparable oval or square tank. The aforementioned tankers are a good 4' longer than ours for the same gallonage, as well as being taller. This extra length and height means lowered turning radius, etc. In an area notorious for narrow roads with minimal turning area, this can be crucial. We've been able to easily place our tanker into areas that the other departments had a lot of difficulty accessing.

    Once again, not against a vacuum tanker, but when the main selling point versus a standard tanker is the drafting abilities, and to a lesser extent full credit for tank size, it pays to understand your department's needs. The local departments that bought vacuum tankers have seldom drafted or haven't drafted at all with their trucks in the few years since purchase.

  6. #26
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    Could be. You couldn't do it on OUR Downtown water system with two vac trucks loading.But you WOULD destroy the see thru suction hose. Our mains with very few exceptions a minumim of 12". T.C.
    This is a rural setting, most lines out here are 6-8". The one on my road is only 4", and has 1 hydrant in a 3/4 mile run. The water company will not put anymore hydt's on 4" lines. We (FD) pay to have the hyd's installed.

  7. #27
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    357

    Default

    Simpleguy68, you laid out some valid reasons why a vacuum tanker may not be right for your department. That is why regarding what type of apparatus you are looking at it is key to determine what works best for your department.

    As with any apparatus there are some give and takes as you indicated regarding length and cost. For other departments that can afford the length and additional cost they eliminate an engine for a fill site, free up personnel, make additional water sources available that were never before accessible and increase their water delivery.

    Regarding the water source being 100' from tanker access, the vacuum tankers don't really care about the length of the hard suction. Even with a 125' of hard suction they will out perform a 450 gpm floating pump through the same length of hose.

    I also noted that you aren't against the concept, just a vacuum tanker in your department. That's what these discussions are about. The exchange of ideas and information to help people determine what they need to look at and what they need for their department.

    Walt
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

  8. #28
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    55

    Smile how big really

    Quote Originally Posted by Nozzle nut 22 View Post
    Good point. I suppose that's why the ski industry has been using cam-locks for decades on their snowmaking hoses! They even pump compressed air through them.

    The second paragraph is also a good point. I always wondered about that- even if your fill lines are supplied off a PDV equipped manifold, as soon as the gate valve for THAT outlet is closed, you're isolated from the dump valve.
    I do not know about 3 inch storz for sure but since it is a metric fitting I do know that 4 inch storz is barely over 3 1/2 inch actual opening. Also some of our AWG appliances the 2 1/2 valves are actually 2 inch flow.

    3 inch cam lock is 3 inch flow.

  9. #29
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    This is a rural setting, most lines out here are 6-8". The one on my road is only 4", and has 1 hydrant in a 3/4 mile run. The water company will not put anymore hydt's on 4" lines. We (FD) pay to have the hyd's installed.
    We're surburban/ rural as well but we have a DECENT water main system(where we have it). Like I said,you could put two Vacs on it simutaniously loading and still have reserve,a couple end hydrants being excepted. We're looking to do a vac for speed/manpower requirements in the early stages of a incident. T.C.

  10. #30
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    UPDATE. We have purchased a demo E-One watermaster 3500 gal. Looks like delivery within the week. Now the fun begins.

  11. #31
    MembersZone Subscriber npfd801's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Somewhere in Illinois
    Posts
    2,220

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    UPDATE. We have purchased a demo E-One watermaster 3500 gal. Looks like delivery within the week. Now the fun begins.
    Any you haven't posted photos yet? THE NERVE!!!!
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  12. #32
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,395

    Default

    Be kind to the environment, recycle your E-Wont into beer and soda cans!
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  13. #33
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Be kind to the environment, recycle your E-Wont into beer and soda cans!
    Now don't be hating on my new water wagon. A deal is a deal.

  14. #34
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Any you haven't posted photos yet? THE NERVE!!!!
    I'll get a pic at tonights training. I'll post another after it comes out of the sign shop.

  15. #35
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Any you haven't posted photos yet? THE NERVE!!!!
    The OLD and the New
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  16. #36
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Hey Chief, your new tanker sucks. I like saying that.....since its a vac! Nice machine!! Congrats!

  17. #37
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    It certainly SUCKS. It was outhauling the old one at the drill 2 to 1. Old-2000 gallons,NEW 3500 gallons. Still learning how to get max production from it but a great addition to our arsenal. My retirement 'home",hehe.

  18. #38
    Forum Member FFWALT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    357

    Default

    T.C.

    Does it have a pump and if so what capacity and how is power provided?

    A while back we provided mutual aid to a department that has a semi tanker and the operator of our vacuum decided he wanted to try something. The department was rightly using their semi as a "on site" tank and letting smaller tankers keep it full. He and I have shared a lot of discussions over the years and although we may not always agree we are cut from the same thread. He decided to supply their semi tanker through LDH by putting pressure to our tanker. He said due to the low friction loss of LDH it worked great. Might be something you want to keep in the back of your mind.

    Take care,
    Walt
    Train like you want to fight.
    www.kvfd.net

  19. #39
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Walt,You remember our ORIGINAL discussion? How my Boss was going to have Zero,Nix, nada firepumps on the Tanker? Well I pushed all I dared and still retain my job. I have a Gas powered 600GPM pump that shortly will be mounted to the truck in a fashion that I can connect a hose from the right side discharge to the pump inlet. Our tank only builds 12-15Psi. We've tried a few experiments with tank pressure only,nothing to date suits me. We took the Boss to a local Big Water Inc seminar,concluding tomorrow and guess what Mark Davis said? Turning out to be a pretty good week

  20. #40
    Forum Member Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    At todays drill we were loading at over 1000gpm didn't make a minutes difference if we used the vacumn pump or just conventionally loaded.About 3 minutes vacumn,3 and a halfish with 4" feeder. More tomorrow as we go into more advanced operations.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. All Federal Air Tankers Grounded
    By ramseycl in forum Wildland Firefighting
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-22-2005, 10:53 AM
  2. World Of Fire Report: 04-19-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-22-2005, 11:09 PM
  3. World Of Fire Report: 04-17-05
    By PaulBrown in forum World of Fire Daily Report
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-21-2005, 07:05 PM
  4. Aging Air Tankers
    By NJFFSA16 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-06-2002, 02:38 AM
  5. Aging Air Tankers
    By NJFFSA16 in forum Wildland Firefighting
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-06-2002, 01:42 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts