Individual Company Functions @ Confined Space Incidents

[Squad1FF]

Hoping to get some excellent feedback, especially knowing the wealth of knowledge that often visits the forum board. I'm putting together some classroom training pertaining to confined space emergencies. I'm gearing this more towards a "Recognizing & Identifying" permit required spaces. I'm hoping to begin w/ individual scenarios that one may not typically recognize as a permit required space (ie. lifting assistance requested by EMS in a utility vault, or an unresponsive patient in a crawlspace of a house). Something to teach the differences in a CS and a Permit-Required CS. Hoping to gear this towards individual company responses, where dispatch info may not include "CS emergency". My objective of the training is to prepare the individual company to recognize what may actually be a permit required CS entry, and initiate a technical rescue response. Also, I'd like to have these units begin life saving measures while awaiting the arrival of tech rescue personnel (ie. ventilation & monitoring, non-entry rescue, lockout tagout)

I'd like to hear feedback regarding this. There may be ppt material already out there someone would share. If not, shoot me your thoughts.
-Any creative scenarios that may not present themselves as a permit required space?
-Any creative non-entry rescue techniques
-Any real life scenarios that you've encountered?
Just help me think outside of the box!

[FiremanLyman]

I applaud this effort. Many REGOPS companies would not think twice about entering an area, never knowing that confined spaces have inherit dangers associated.

First, most Permit Spaces will be so labeled, and should be manned by an attendant on the outside, and under the supervision of a competent person; all of what would be an immediate indicator of a Permit Space.

Regular old confined spaces will be a little more difficult to recognize to the untrained eye (not all are manholes!). I think this is where your class should become interesting. Start off with the OSHA definitions of both a Confined Space and a Permit Space.

Love to B.S. about it more, but don't have the time.

[bburton]

-Any creative non-entry rescue techniques

I once met an older Captain that told a story about teaching at a rural fire department in the 70's. The Fire Chief was ecstatic about a new rescue tool that his department had purchased. It could search for victims and pull them out of the house without a firefighter even having to use a hoseline or enter the house.

Being intrigued by the prospect, the Captain asked him if he would show him this new contraption. The Fire Chief brought back from the bay... a 10ft pike pole.


I wouldn't personally advocate such techniques in your teachings.

[slider95]

Hoping to get some excellent feedback, especially knowing the wealth of knowledge that often visits the forum board. I'm putting together some classroom training pertaining to confined space emergencies. I'm gearing this more towards a "Recognizing & Identifying" permit required spaces. I'm hoping to begin w/ individual scenarios that one may not typically recognize as a permit required space (ie. lifting assistance requested by EMS in a utility vault, or an unresponsive patient in a crawlspace of a house). Something to teach the differences in a CS and a Permit-Required CS. Hoping to gear this towards individual company responses, where dispatch info may not include "CS emergency". My objective of the training is to prepare the individual company to recognize what may actually be a permit required CS entry, and initiate a technical rescue response. Also, I'd like to have these units begin life saving measures while awaiting the arrival of tech rescue personnel (ie. ventilation & monitoring, non-entry rescue, lockout tagout)

I'd like to hear feedback regarding this. There may be ppt material already out there someone would share. If not, shoot me your thoughts.
-Any creative scenarios that may not present themselves as a permit required space?
-Any creative non-entry rescue techniques
-Any real life scenarios that you've encountered?
Just help me think outside of the box!

How about a steam tunnel or a below grade telephone vault with man down. Both of these have potential to be permitted spaces because of atmosphere. They can be proven confined spaces by continuous monitoring or ventilation. Engine can monitor first to prove atmosphere and vent if necessary. If there going up and down ladder like a Telephone vault 8' to 12' typical depth they may have harness with retrieval line that can be grabbed by the Engine Company for non entry rescue. A crawlspace would work too. How about plumber hooking up sanitary line overcame by fumes from plumbing solvent or sewer gas who failed to return after work. Again monitor, ventilation, and extricate from a horizontal setting. As far as recognizing "permitting spaces" any confined space with the following: Engulfment material, inward/sloping converging walls/to taper cross section/ a mechanical hazard present (mixer, press/ etc.) or known atmospheric hazard present. Make some slides up of area in your district, or local business, industry they may see, show them to Engine Companies and ask Permitted Space or Confined Space? Then ask them why does it make it into Permit space and as you alluded to earlier what can we do to start our rescue operation plan. Ask them if it is a Permit Space, what is going to happen differently over a typical confined space. Maybe some flashcards for the groups with scenarios. They would have to come up a dry-erase board and draw out the plan, identify space, unit actions, etc. Just some thoughts. Chad

[JohnVBFD]

-Any real life scenarios that you've encountered?
Just help me think outside of the box!

Most difficult ones we've encountered:

Working with the US Navy when they have incidents onboard ships in the many voids and tanks encountered.

How we operate vs. how they operate.
Command/Control
Logistics
Medical

All stuff we've been force to work with/through.