CAFS Skid unit

[LVFD301]

Recommendations on a CAFS skid unit for a brush truck, to be installed in a Military K30 CUCV pickup.

Thoughts?

[slackjawedyokel]

I have only used one as a demo --- the Rowe seemed pretty simple to operate. And NO ,I dont sell them.

[simpleguy68]

Second the recommendation for the Rowe Industries Eliminator. We have the Wildland Interface CAFS skid on our new brush truck and it works very, very well and is fairly simple to use.

You can see our brush truck at: http://www.firehouse.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122838 (New Brush Truck)

More info on Rowe Industries at: http://www.cafssystems.com

[simpleguy68]

Our CAFS in operation, 0.3% Class A foam...

[Catch22]

I assume you're talking about one of the 5/4-ton trucks that they have in Lebanon?

We ended up putting a flatbed on ours (used, I think it cost us like $200 and some paint to repaint it) and a CET 60 cfm diesel CAFS unit. We have it piped directly into the fuel tank on the truck to avoid having to fill it.

We've had really good luck with it. We have an 1 3/4" and 1" line preconnected and some more 1" and 1 3/4" spare tucked away. We also made a couple of short sections for the guys to spray from the cab.

While I still have some reservations about using CAFS for structural firefighting, I'm sold on it's use in the wildland, hay bales, etc.

I'll see if I have a picture running around I can send you.

[LVFD301]

I assume you're talking about one of the 5/4-ton trucks that they have in Lebanon?

We ended up putting a flatbed on ours (used, I think it cost us like $200 and some paint to repaint it) and a CET 60 cfm diesel CAFS unit. We have it piped directly into the fuel tank on the truck to avoid having to fill it.

We've had really good luck with it. We have an 1 3/4" and 1" line preconnected and some more 1" and 1 3/4" spare tucked away. We also made a couple of short sections for the guys to spray from the cab.

While I still have some reservations about using CAFS for structural firefighting, I'm sold on it's use in the wildland, hay bales, etc.

I'll see if I have a picture running around I can send you.

We have had a number of people pushing the CET system, both the 60 and the 35. I am trying to figure out if the 35 will do for us, as it is in our price range.

I don't expect to do much with the 1 3/4, but will be using the 1 inch (would like to experiment with 5/8 also - that is what we use now with plain water). I also am thinking about two fixed nozzles in each front corner of the bumper. On or off, and they would put out a coating. Run by 5/8 or 1 inch, but very low volume. How many gallons of water are you carrying?

I sent you a note about that OK company you had mentioned for skid units a couple of years ago, I guess they don't build them anymore. Your email kicked back as no good now.

[BlueDevils83]

The easiest and best solution would be a HMA Hydrus UHP system with foam. Without the trouble of a CAFS unit, you achieve CAFS like foam using a 20 gpm system that has been tested at Tyndall Air Base has being more effective at putting out fire as compared to a low pressure, high volume system. I can provide additional information if needed or visit www.hmafire.com.

[Catch22]

We have had a number of people pushing the CET system, both the 60 and the 35. I am trying to figure out if the 35 will do for us, as it is in our price range.

I don't expect to do much with the 1 3/4, but will be using the 1 inch (would like to experiment with 5/8 also - that is what we use now with plain water). I also am thinking about two fixed nozzles in each front corner of the bumper. On or off, and they would put out a coating. Run by 5/8 or 1 inch, but very low volume. How many gallons of water are you carrying?

I sent you a note about that OK company you had mentioned for skid units a couple of years ago, I guess they don't build them anymore. Your email kicked back as no good now.

Unruh bought out that company, as I understand it. My email's changed. First initial, last name @windstream.net.

We're using a 1" with an Akron Saberjet with a 1/2" bore with good luck. It's a big nozzle for a 1" line, but it works well so far.

[LVFD301]

The easiest and best solution would be a HMA Hydrus UHP system with foam. Without the trouble of a CAFS unit, you achieve CAFS like foam using a 20 gpm system that has been tested at Tyndall Air Base has being more effective at putting out fire as compared to a low pressure, high volume system. I can provide additional information if needed or visit www.hmafire.com.

My funding is for CAFS - If I could change that I would tell you to come on down and lets set some woods on fire.

[LVFD301]

Unruh bought out that company, as I understand it. My email's changed. First initial, last name @windstream.net.

We're using a 1" with an Akron Saberjet with a 1/2" bore with good luck. It's a big nozzle for a 1" line, but it works well so far.

I just hate 1 inch line - but I know we have to scrub

[plattefd]

Our dept. has two CAFS skid units. One is an Odin and the other is a CET. The CET was put in service in June. We have had extensive use on both and it seems that the Odin unit is a better all around unit. The Odin seems to be more reliable and and a little easier to operate.

[LVFD301]

The CET units are coming in very highly recommended by some people I respect - so next question.

This is for a brush truck. We presently use a couple of hundred gallons of water, and can fight our normal woods fires, natural cover, leaves, etc quite well. We also have field fires, that except for very rare occasions where it moves faster than we can, we normally just walk or drive along and put out. 200 gallons on a 3/4 inch garden hose line goes a LONG way for that.

Rarely, but sometimes we have fires that move FAST, and at that point it is exposure protection until we can get it back to the woods where it slows down. (the kind of moving that goes quicker than one can run on foot) We are really looking forward to the CAFS for the exposure protection aspects.

Now, we will be running about the same gallons of water, but with CAFS capability. No longer can we effectively use the 3/4 line, having to go to at least the 1 inch line to allow the CAFS to scrub well before hitting the nozzle.

CET has a 35 CFM unit, and a 60 CFM unit. I believe that the 35 CFM unit will do everything we ask for it to do on a brush truck and more.

What do you all think? Will the 35CFM unit work with our limited needs? This is the unit I am looking at. Budget wise, it is all I believe I will be able to afford anyways, but I still want to get it right. We are going to spec it with a 1.5 inch water only outlet, 1 inch booster, and 1 1/2 CAFS preconnect tray. (and maybe one of them thar "whips".

http://www.fire-pump.com/pdf/fiches/CET_35_CFM_gas.pdf

[Catch22]

One thing we did that you might look at is throwing a wye on the water-only discharge and put some 3/4" on it. Remove the wye and you have your 1 1/2" connection back.

The only reason we went with the 60cfm is because we had the money (grant) to do so. If I was going to get another with our own, I'd like to stick with the CAFS but would probably go with a 35 for this kind of application.

Particularly since CAFS is new to us, we're not really using it as a primary option. If we have a large pile or hay bales, we go directly to the CAFS. For our typical grass and woods fires we start with straight water then use the CAFS for mop-up a lot of times. That is unless we have a big pile of debris or something warranting CAFS use.

One of the nice things about the CET unit we have (I'm sure everyone's unit is similar) is that we have it set to flow straight water and then turn the little switch-over to flow the foam. Another switch gets the air going. So, you can go water, Class A foam, or CAFS, depending on what you want at the time.

[johnsb]

Have you looked at a Tri-Max system? http://www.trimax.us/#3 It's a CAFS system, but it uses SCUBA bottles instead of a pump. That way you aren't carrying the extra weight of the pumps, you have more capacity for water and foam. Should be cheaper too as there are no pumps, just tanks, valves, and piping. We put one on our rescue so it would have some firefighting capablity on MVA's. A Super 120 should fit in that truck just fine.

[LVFD301]

We looked at a number of captive air systems like that. Way too limiting for rural firefighting, although it may be good in very limited situations.

Rural firefighting here includes being a couple of miles from the road, which is still going to leave you 20 miles from the station with an air compressor for filling those bottles up. With a CAFS unit with a pump and compressor, I can pull up to a farm pond and refill, take a 5 gallon bucket of foam out of the cabinet, and be on my way again. (or run to the nurse engine/tanker and do the same).

That super 120 looks like it would be pretty difficult to pull that off.

Oh, and SCUBA bottles? Around here it will be at least an hour to get SCUBA bottles on the scene - I guess you meant SCBA?

[johnsb]

We looked at a number of captive air systems like that. Way too limiting for rural firefighting, although it may be good in very limited situations.

Rural firefighting here includes being a couple of miles from the road, which is still going to leave you 20 miles from the station with an air compressor for filling those bottles up. With a CAFS unit with a pump and compressor, I can pull up to a farm pond and refill, take a 5 gallon bucket of foam out of the cabinet, and be on my way again. (or run to the nurse engine/tanker and do the same).

That super 120 looks like it would be pretty difficult to pull that off.

Oh, and SCUBA bottles? Around here it will be at least an hour to get SCUBA bottles on the scene - I guess you meant SCBA?

Nope, SCUBA bottles. We have an adapter. You can always buy spare bottles and carry them on the truck. We have a cascade on the rescue, so no problem there. Have you compared the prices? That may change your mind.

[LVFD301]

Nope, SCUBA bottles. We have an adapter. You can always buy spare bottles and carry them on the truck. We have a cascade on the rescue, so no problem there. Have you compared the prices? That may change your mind.

I don't want to appear closed minded, but I just think I would really be boxing in my capabilities. If I have to send the rig out of service for an hour to get air....

If you have some ballpark costs please send them to me bbowers@mozarks.com and I will look at it. I do admit, the super 120 looks nice, the slip in utility box system looks really nice.

[Catch22]

Have you looked at a Tri-Max system? http://www.trimax.us/#3 It's a CAFS system, but it uses SCUBA bottles instead of a pump. That way you aren't carrying the extra weight of the pumps, you have more capacity for water and foam. Should be cheaper too as there are no pumps, just tanks, valves, and piping. We put one on our rescue so it would have some firefighting capablity on MVA's. A Super 120 should fit in that truck just fine.

I just wanted to thank you for posting that link. I went there just out of pure curiosity.

As it works out, we have one of the CAFS-30 units. We obtained it through the FFP program and it looks like it's never been used. Now I have the owners manual, training video, and a bunch of other stuff for it.

Now I just need to figure out a way to convert the little trailer into something we can use off-road behind our Ranger.

[LVFD301]

What does Lebanon call that thing? I will try requesting one.

Got my award this morning. I dropped a couple of emails to tri-max with no reply, but the price estimates from here I did get are, well, more than I would have figured. Time to make a decision and put out specs though.

[Catch22]

What does Lebanon call that thing? I will try requesting one.

Got my award this morning. I dropped a couple of emails to tri-max with no reply, but the price estimates from here I did get are, well, more than I would have figured. Time to make a decision and put out specs though.

I'm not real sure what it's called, but I requested a mini-CAFS unit and described it to our guy down here and he knew what it was. Apparently they're getting several of them.

Have fun shopping! Most of the time I actually enjoy shopping for new equipment, but the CAFS stuff drove me nuts!