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    Default Truss/Lightweight Building Marking

    I'm looking for info from anyone who has a truss/lightweight building marking program. We've basically determined our "system" but are looking for info on where others have required the markings to be located? Trust me, the front or address side won't fly so we're looking at other locations and how they're mounted.

    One of our thoughts is to locate the marker with or adjacent to, the electrical entrance where it enters above grade or if this is below grade on side #4 near the front corner (4/1) at view-able location. We're looking for consistent locations for operating personnel to readily view but are cognizant that the people won't want them affecting the aesthetics of the home.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    I'm looking for info from anyone who has a truss/lightweight building marking program. We've basically determined our "system" but are looking for info on where others have required the markings to be located? Trust me, the front or address side won't fly so we're looking at other locations and how they're mounted.

    One of our thoughts is to locate the marker with or adjacent to, the electrical entrance where it enters above grade or if this is below grade on side #4 near the front corner (4/1) at view-able location. We're looking for consistent locations for operating personnel to readily view but are cognizant that the people won't want them affecting the aesthetics of the home.
    Commercial Bldgs: Truss emblems shall be located at the knox box, which will be mounted to the address side, preferably in close proximity to the sprinkler connection, which is encouraged to be on side 1.

    Residential: at the entrances to any (tract housing) community with truss floors or roofs.

    I'll get pix when I go back to work on Jan 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    We're looking for consistent locations for operating personnel to readily view but are cognizant that the people won't want them affecting the aesthetics of the home.
    For commercial building: How about at the FDC?
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    New Jersey started this idea a while back, here is what they say

    http://www.manvillenj.org/userfiles/...%20Emblems.pdf

    I would think if the entire development is the same construction you could place "the sign" at entrances to the development.
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    For commercial building: How about at the FDC?

    This would work for a single building BUT not for an entire complex of buildings supplied by one FDC at the complex pit connection.
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    Thanks for the replies, keep them coming. We're not worried about commercial structures as much, the FDC or other area is much more likely to be accepted as just part of the rules. We do intend to utilize this system on private dwellings, which is where we expect we'll need to be a little more sensitive to the homeowners concerns about how it'll look. Again, this is why we're thinking the electrical service entrance would be somewhat palatable given it's not usually on Side 1 and is generally unattractive. We expect our first due officers to complete a 360 of all PD's and the marker should be readily visible to them. I'd like to see them either in one standardized location or at worst only allow two options for simplicity.

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    Would it be possible to mandate that private residences display a marker? I couldn't see that happening unless it was part of a deed restriction or as a long shot, city ordinance. Is this something that your city/town is looking into or only the department?

    I just ask out of curiosity because I know getting the 2 million residents here to do something like that would take an act of God. It may be completely different where you are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrYuk View Post
    Would it be possible to mandate that private residences display a marker? I couldn't see that happening unless it was part of a deed restriction or as a long shot, city ordinance. Is this something that your city/town is looking into or only the department?

    I just ask out of curiosity because I know getting the 2 million residents here to do something like that would take an act of God. It may be completely different where you are.
    We'll be doing it through City Ordinance and likely it will only affect new construction or those homes with a certain square foot addition or renovation. On the commercial side it like will also be new buildings, renovations, and any time there's a change of use. We do need it to be somewhat sensitive to the homeowners concerns (not to large or obtrusive, and in a location that doesn't detract from the home).

    Our residents are generally supportive of fire prevention type measures (we have a sprinkler requirement for all residential dwellings despite the state dropping the ball). Our plan is to have a councilor start the ordinance then have an education night for councilors and the public as to why we need this and then put it on the councils agenda. It will not need to go to public referendum here unless the sky falls.

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    Sounds pretty cool and hopefully you get it passed.
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    Deed restrictions are for legally dedicating a plot of land or a portion of a plot for a specific purpose- such as a "deed restricted open space" or a requirement that a section or all of a plot meet requirements above and beyond what is legally allowable according to the current zoning requirements.

    Marking individual structures would have to be done through state or local ordinance. Many communities currently have ordinances in place to mark commercial structures, and a good amount have ordinances in place to mark residential neighborhoods. I dont know of any ordinance anywhere requiring individual residential structure markings, and I highly doubt that it could get passed- you would have the homeowners associations, the builders, the architects all lined up to fight marking individual structures. Homeowners themselves may line up as well to join the fight. Not saying it couldnt happen, just saying I have my doubts.

    I would concentrate my energy on passing ordinance to mark the entrances and/or intersection street signs with the appropriate truss markers. Also lobby your dispatch center to include the fact that there is truss construction in the "notes" for individual addresses, and have the dispatcher notify the first command officer when he goes responding.
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    What about neighborhoods who have homes different with different construction types, ones built by different companies. Marking a street sign wouldn't tell you anything in that case. Also many departments still do not have CAD computers in their apparatus, or a way to read notes. Even so, that would require a pre-plan of every residence which in some areas could take many years, not to mention the fact that there is no law in place to allow fire marshals or anyone else to inspect a private residence.

    Marking each specific residence would be the best option. Now getting it passed through city counsel is a different story and will be a difficult fight. It would be even worse in an unincorporated area, where a commissioner's court can barely enforce commercial fire codes, let alone residential.
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    Even with marking individual residences, only new construction would likely be the only ones required. They would grandfather all other homes and leave it to the builders to mark the new ones, as a requirement to pass inspection similar to what they do with home sprinklers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrYuk View Post
    Also many departments still do not have CAD computers in their apparatus, or a way to read notes..
    Have the 'spatcher notify the first command officer verbally of notes in the computer if it is an incident- ever listen to FDNY? Ever hear these words: "Bronx to the one-nine, CIDS information is available upon request." That means that the spatcher has something in the notes, and if they pull up and have something, the IC can then call back and say "give me the CIDS."

    Another way would be to have the Code Enforcement/Building Office notify the FD of every address they receive a permit for that uses truss construction. I notify the FD every time I issue a certificate of occupancy for anything with trusses or that have engineered lumber.
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    Due to the varied neighborhoods and lack of tract housing marking each house if far more preferable. We think that with a smaller, less obtrusive marker in a non obtrusive location is a "passable ordinance". We are fortunate to have decent council support.
    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Have the 'spatcher notify the first command officer verbally of notes in the computer if it is an incident- ever listen to FDNY? Ever hear these words: "Bronx to the one-nine, CIDS information is available upon request." That means that the spatcher has something in the notes, and if they pull up and have something, the IC can then call back and say "give me the CIDS."
    Comparing the FDNY dispatch to what we or many other have is funny! Comparing FDNY "systems" is unrealistic to most FD's nationwide, while learning from individual proven tactics makes sense. Having the info in our dispatchers hands is another option that will likely be utilized, but let's just say our confidence in their abilities is less than perfect.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 01-01-2012 at 10:07 AM.

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    How long ago did they start using truss floors or roofs on homes, 10-15 years ago? That should help in the number of homes the sign would apply. Have you calculated how many homes have this exposure in your town?

    On the commercial side most are using metal bar joist for a very long time and much easier to figure out if they have it or not. Private homes are more difficult if they have a finished basement or no basement.
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    Do we really need to put some type of marker on a each new residence that trusses are there? We should assume they are truss built in this day and time. Also, personally, I would not want a "T" or something on my house. Maybe a different colored mailbox (if you have them) or a "T" at the beginning of the numbers on the mailbox. I completely agree with commercial or neighborhood, but individual residences I would need a closer look. If you had trusses in a newly constructed residence, what would you do different than if it was ridgepole and rafters in a newly constructed residence?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Do we really need to put some type of marker on a each new residence that trusses are there? We should assume they are truss built in this day and time. Also, personally, I would not want a "T" or something on my house. Maybe a different colored mailbox (if you have them) or a "T" at the beginning of the numbers on the mailbox. I completely agree with commercial or neighborhood, but individual residences I would need a closer look.
    I agree. The "T" should be on the street sign out on the road, if at all.

    Shame one you if you don't know how the new buildings are being built in your district.
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    11111111111n a fire.
    Last edited by InsuranceLCRep; 01-01-2012 at 12:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    We should assume they are truss built in this day and time.
    You would be surprised at how many builders around here still stick-frame houses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Do we really need to put some type of marker on a each new residence that trusses are there? We should assume they are truss built in this day and time. ...

    If you had trusses in a newly constructed residence, what would you do different than if it was ridgepole and rafters in a newly constructed residence?
    While I'm somewhat in agreement, how many of your personnel can readily identify all the construction eras of older homes in your community right now? Builder's are fairly cleaver at making new homes look old and old home look new. We can assume all the new houses contain some form of lightweight construction materials, but who will know in 20-30 years? Aren't there hundreds of things we wished our predecessors did a few decades ago that would make things much easier today?

    As for changing how we operate? Roofs to me aren't as big an issue as wood I beams in floors or glu-lams carrying large spans. More importantly is knowing when updates are done to a home that include truss joists or other "unanticipated" materials given the age of the home.

    We're still convinced we can make this a go with a smaller residential marker at the electrical entrance or other less obtrusive location on SFD's. I'll let you know as it plays out.

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