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  1. #1
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    Default Hiring projections for 2012

    With the uncertainty in the economy I have seen a lot of the "older" firefighters who have put in their maximum years of service hang on and continue working. Many of them are worried about the uncertainty in the economy, some work to continue receiving healthcare benefits (they have to pay the cost of their health insurance when they retire), some have kids in college, and some are staying to work the overtime.

    Ironically, since it's cheaper to pay a firefighter time and one half to fill positions, many departments have unfilled vacancies. Many California departments have been forced to offer new hires a two tiered retirement. This means that all new employees will be hired on a different (less expensive) retirement program that us "old guys".

    With the implementation of a two tiered retirement system, the gap between hiring a new firefighter and paying overtime has been greatly reduced. I believe for these reasons you will see an increase in hiring.

    Another dynamic that will affect the hiring is the fact that many departments have decreased their staffing by "browning out (temporary closing) or completely closing engines and trucks. These closing save on the most expensive cost to run the department - personnel.

    As the vacancies are filled, the older guys will no longer be offered opportunities to work overtime. Once these opportunities dry up, I believe you will see an increase in retirements. Couple this with the fact that additional senior firefighters have planned for retirement.
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    AspiringFireOfficers.com


  2. #2
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    Chief,

    Appreciate your insight on this matter, I find your contributions to the discussions continualy valuable. I'm hoping that 2013 sees an uptick in hiring based upon some of the retirement trends you alluded to. As someone rapidly approaching the standard cut-off age (I'm 33) my clock is ticking as they say.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFGrouse View Post
    Chief,

    Appreciate your insight on this matter, I find your contributions to the discussions continualy valuable. I'm hoping that 2013 sees an uptick in hiring based upon some of the retirement trends you alluded to. As someone rapidly approaching the standard cut-off age (I'm 33) my clock is ticking as they say.
    I was hired with a 36 year old and two 40 year olds. Your age is fine.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerhourcoug View Post
    I was hired with a 36 year old and two 40 year olds. Your age is fine.
    Although your department may not have an age cut-off, many if not most fire departments do in fact have a maximum age for appointment (generally mid to upper 30s; in some cases early 30s).

  5. #5
    Forum Member Picc.93Truck's Avatar
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    Chief, I hope your correct aswell. Being young, I still have a few years until I can be hired at most departments. In the mean time, I'm getting as much schooling in as I can while I stay at my Volly house to learn and keep active. If your right, my chances of getting a job will increase, which makes me a happy man!
    Firefighter 1/ PA EMT-B

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    Although your department may not have an age cut-off, many if not most fire departments do in fact have a maximum age for appointment (generally mid to upper 30s; in some cases early 30s).
    I call BS, a big stinking pile of it.

    I know of NO departments in my region with an upper age limit, and know of MANY cases of middle aged recruits (some as high as 50 years old).

    Sure, there are age limits (i.e. FDNY), but to say the "majority" of fire departments impose them is a highly irresponsible and inaccurate statement.

    @FFGrouse...you have plenty of time!
    Last edited by powerhourcoug; 01-06-2012 at 02:11 PM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by powerhourcoug View Post
    I call BS, a big stinking pile of it.

    I know of NO departments in my region with an upper age limit, and know of MANY cases of middle aged recruits (some as high as 50 years old).

    Sure, there are age limits (i.e. FDNY), but to say the "majority" of fire departments impose them is a highly irresponsible and inaccurate statement.

    @FFGrouse...you have plenty of time!
    I'm from Ohio and the STATE LAW stipulates that 35 is the maximum age for appointment to ANY full-time department in the state. That includes Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus, Toledo, etc.

    Also, there are age limits (set in the 30s) at FDNY, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Philly, Boston, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Kansas City, and many more in Virginia all the way to California.

    I cannot speak for your region in particular; but your domicile is not necessarily representative for where FFGrouse lives or can relocate to. While there are fire departments that do not have age restrictions, the trend is growing toward age restrictions due to pension issues and other fiscal factors related to retirement. So, while I would not discourage someone from applying for jobs, the reality is that a person in their 30s has a significantly smaller pool of good jobs to choose from.

  8. #8
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    Columbus does not have a age requirement, but needs too. We have hired well over 100 guys in 2011.

  9. #9
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    Why would you believe you need an age requirement? This sounds silly.

    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    Paul Lepore
    Battalion Chief
    www.aspiringfirefighters.com

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by columbusfire10 View Post
    Columbus does not have a age requirement, but needs too. We have hired well over 100 guys in 2011.
    Sorry to correct you about your own department, but Columbus does in fact have a maximum age cut-off for appointment - pursuant to Ohio law. See Ohio Revised Code Section 124.42: Firefighter Qualifications http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/124.42

    The only reason Columbus was able to hire anyone over the age of 35 in 2011 is because they were hired from a test that was given before the current law went into effect (circa 2009 if I'm not mistaken). Those individuals are exempt from the age restriction. However, no one over the age of 35 will be appointed to Columbus Fire from the 2010/2011 recruitment process.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    Sorry to correct you about your own department, but Columbus does in fact have a maximum age cut-off for appointment - pursuant to Ohio law. See Ohio Revised Code Section 124.42: Firefighter Qualifications http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/124.42

    The only reason Columbus was able to hire anyone over the age of 35 in 2011 is because they were hired from a test that was given before the current law went into effect (circa 2009 if I'm not mistaken). Those individuals are exempt from the age restriction. However, no one over the age of 35 will be appointed to Columbus Fire from the 2010/2011 recruitment process.
    Former Columbus Divison of Fire Firefighter...CFD had an age requirement in the past, and no longer has one. Cincinnati use to have an age restriction of 32, and changed it to 38. The laws apply to major city departments differently than they do with smaller departments. Countrywide, age limit laws are typically only an issue because they are decided by a particular State's Pension or Retirement Laws. Age, BELIEVE ME, has very little to do with performance...an issue just better left alone. The job is physical, so if you are 20 or 50, you have to do it the same. Speaking for the departments I have worked for, all of which are top notch, the "Senior" guys typically are work horses with loads of experience to work smarter, not harder, and have been there, and done that. A concept ALL newboys learn one way or the other. Even in my early years, I learned some things the hard way as a NEW BOY, so just get on the horse and ride it if you want it. Don't get caught up in the silly discussions that take place on here about who deserves the job or doesn't. Age is what you want it to be, and the big cities, like The Columbus Divison of Fire, follow the laws with regards to State Certifications, but beyond that, they do what they want, to make the firefighter they want, to do the things they want you to do, on their fires and ems runs. Columbus Recruit school is one the longest and most extensive in the country...30 weeks...not many departments send their guys out on the street with as much preparation as they do. Trust me, I know, as their training, and my on the job experiences with busy companies there, taught me things that have been invaluble in my continued fire service career in another State.

    Just read the hiring notices for any department about their age...if they have one, and you don't meet it, move on. It's the nature of the beast. I ran into it a lot right before I got on Columbus back then, tried to fight some, and lost all. If they have the requirement, it's set, and there are not exceptions, unless they have Military Service provisions for active duty time served.

    Good Luck!

    CFD Class of 12/7/03
    Truck Company Love

  12. #12
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    Texas civil service law states that you can not be hired if you have reached your 36th birthday, although not all departments in Texas are under state civil service

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREJAWZ View Post
    I'm from Ohio and the STATE LAW stipulates that 35 is the maximum age for appointment to ANY full-time department in the state. That includes Cleveland, Cincy, Columbus, Toledo, etc.

    Also, there are age limits (set in the 30s) at FDNY, Chicago, Houston, Dallas, Philly, Boston, Indianapolis, San Antonio, Kansas City, and many more in Virginia all the way to California.

    I cannot speak for your region in particular; but your domicile is not necessarily representative for where FFGrouse lives or can relocate to. While there are fire departments that do not have age restrictions, the trend is growing toward age restrictions due to pension issues and other fiscal factors related to retirement. So, while I would not discourage someone from applying for jobs, the reality is that a person in their 30s has a significantly smaller pool of good jobs to choose from.
    There are thousands of professional fire departments across the nation.

    I'm sure there are plenty of opportunities out there for middle aged guys.

    It's hilarious when guys like you come on here and attempt to decide other people's futures, especially when you're proven wrong on a regular basis.

    Thanks for the laughs.

    @FFGrouse: Hit me up with a PM if you have any questions.
    Last edited by powerhourcoug; 01-07-2012 at 05:58 PM.

  14. #14
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    To my knowledge there are NO age restrictions in California. I have a very good friend who was hired last month by a City department within the county of Orange who is 46 years old.
    Personally, I have been very impressed by the "older" entry level candidates.
    Paul Lepore
    Division Chief
    Aspiringfirefighters.com
    Paul Lepore
    Battalion Chief
    www.aspiringfirefighters.com

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