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    Default Acceptable Training Activities

    My fire department instituted a new training mandate requiring 240 hours annually, in 2011. This is based on an ISO recommendation (I'm told). About 1/2 of those hours include training topics mandated by the regional training officers' organization. The additional hours must come from other training activities but there is some debate between the management as to what is acceptable forms of training. So I was hoping to get some feedback from the forums. What does your fire department/district accept as "other" training to credit towards your annual requirement?

    - Physical Training (PT)
    - Enhanced medical response courses (PEPP, PALS, PHTLS, ACLS, etc.)
    - Daily Engine Checks
    - Post Incident performance and review
    - Others?

    Thanks in advance for your responses. Please note that we are a combination paid full-time/part-time/volunteer fire department so some of the staff must obtain training in the "other" category to meet the 240 hour requirement.

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    What state are you in??

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    California

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    If you're wanting a response based upon the ISO 240 hours, here's my input based on what I know of the points there.

    PT can only be used for a minimal amount of the hours. Much like Haz-Mat can only account for like 4 or 8 (can't remember which right now) hours.

    The premise of the 240 hours is that it is training on structural firefighting. EMS CEUs don't count, nor do tech rescue and other similar categories. Going over tools with your crew during truck inspections- weak, but if done and documented right it could work as tool familiarization training. Post-incident reviews can work in the same fashion.

    There's actually a bit more to it than just the 240 hours, too. There's a certain number of night drills, multi-company drills, new driver training, and driver training that needs to be performed along with the 240.

    If you don't believe there are 240 hours of training that ISO wants (based on the "so I'm told" comment), a little google searching can put you right on that information. isoslayer.com actually has a book you can download that outlines a lot of it. ISO's mitigation website may also have some info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Catch22 View Post
    If you don't believe there are 240 hours of training that ISO wants (based on the "so I'm told" comment), a little google searching can put you right on that information. isoslayer.com actually has a book you can download that outlines a lot of it. ISO's mitigation website may also have some info.
    What ISO wants is to see good records of credible training. The actual hours are less critical than the documentation and quality of training. They will "consider" 20 hours of training per month but that doesn't mean your department will take a significant hit if it documents less than that. Keep in mind that training only makes up 9% of your ISO score.

    Train because good training makes better firefighters; not because some arbitrary number of training hours might slightly boost your ISO score.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

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    Thanks for the quick reply Catch22. The, "I'm told," comment is because I really don't know the details of the mandate. I do believe they are based on the ISO recommendation. I will follow up on isoslayer.com.

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    Thanks, DeputyMarshall. I can't speak to the intent of the 240 hours (ISO score vs. setting a high bar). The one positive result of a 240 hour mandate is that individual firefighters keep their own training records in addition to the department record.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyMarshal View Post
    What ISO wants is to see good records of credible training. The actual hours are less critical than the documentation and quality of training. They will "consider" 20 hours of training per month but that doesn't mean your department will take a significant hit if it documents less than that. Keep in mind that training only makes up 9% of your ISO score.

    Train because good training makes better firefighters; not because some arbitrary number of training hours might slightly boost your ISO score.
    I can't argue one bit with you. Documentation is key. It's also a good excuse to get that training in. If you've got to do the training, may as well make it good training.

    There's a lot of resources out there and things that can count as training, so long as it's properly documented. Sitting down and discussing a structure fire after you get back to the station is training, just needs documented. Equipment familiarization during truck checks, so long as it's documented right. There's a LOT of training that actually goes undocumented, and a lot of tedious things we do that can be turned into training, it's just doing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatisadrexel View Post
    Thanks for the quick reply Catch22. The, "I'm told," comment is because I really don't know the details of the mandate. I do believe they are based on the ISO recommendation. I will follow up on isoslayer.com.
    I can understand that. Forgive me if I took at as a bit of a blow-off. As a training officer, I see that position taken more than I care to.

    On the isoslayer site, look for the "Your Next ISO Rating" book. It's a Word document that's pretty big, but it's got a lot of good info in it.

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    Cool ISO Slayer

    I hope this will offer you some information concerning your question:

    Training According to ISO

    Training aids = 35 Points
    (These two categories together, Training aids and Use of facilities) are totaled for a maximum of 35 points

    Drill tower = 8 points (2 per story maximum of 4 floors)
    Burn Building = 8 points (Must be made of Non-Flammable materials)
    1,500 SQ FT combustible liquid pit = 5 points (Can use a video and anti-burn SOP)
    Training library and Training manuals = 2 points (IFSTA, Fire Chiefs Handbook)
    Visual Aids = 2 points (Slide and movie projector, pump and hydrant cutaways)
    Open training area of 2 acres = 10 points (Can be streets and parking lots)

    Use of above facilities = percentage of use X total of points for training aids
    For full credit;
    8 multi-company drills annually, each 3 hours long, 2 of the 8 conducted at night, with 100% attendance, or more drills to assure 100% attendance. Drills need to be conducted at your training grounds or with your training facilities.

    Company training = 25 points

    Every member receiving 20 hours per month of classroom or drill ground training, in addition to the multi-company drills in USE above

    Officer training = 15 points

    All officers receiving two (2) six hour classes annually (Leadership, administration, supervision, management and meetings covering strategies and tactics)

    Pre-Fire plans = 15 points

    The ISO™ expects all drawings and data on all commercial and public buildings as well as multi-family dwellings (larger than 1 to 4 family) to be updated yearly. In addition, they want all pre-plan properties reviewed twice yearly by firefighters in the form of company inspections or review of pre-plan books. Written records of updates and pre-plan reviews must be maintained if you want collect credit in the category.

    Recruit Training = 5 points

    Every recruit must receive 240 hours of recruit training

    New Driver Training = 2 points

    All new drivers must receive 40 hours of new driver training

    Driver Training = 2 points

    ALL existing drivers must receive four (4) three (3) hour sessions annually

    Radiological monitoring/ Hazardous material training = 1 point

    One (1) three hour class annually for ALL members

    I should point out that the comment that "Training is only 9% of your grade" is not totally accurate, There are 50 points available for the fire department in the ISO rating schedule... 9 points is for training, only Personnel, 15 and Engine credit, 10 score higher... another way to look at it is this... it is 18% of your TOTAL score for fire department...
    Now in the OVERALL score it is 9%... until you get to divergence... Thats the points you lose because ISO has a formula to multiply the total fire department score by 80% and then subtract the smaller of the two scores between water and fire... arriving at a number they then divide in half... final number is then subtracted from your overall score... or a possible 16.2 points of a 100 point rating!!

    Now, all that aside... the real reason we assist fire department's is this.... to help you become the BEST that you can be... by doing that you will score better in an ISO rating...

    Training is probably one of the most important things you do in the fire service...... It may save YOUR life and you can't even begin to do your job without it.... We just assist you to get credit for what you are doing more than likely anyway...

    As others have pointed out.... Thank you by the way... Our book is free... www.isoslayer.com

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagravesstick View Post
    I hope this will offer you some information concerning your question:

    Training According to ISO

    Training aids = 35 Points
    (These two categories together, Training aids and Use of facilities) are totaled for a maximum of 35 points

    Drill tower = 8 points (2 per story maximum of 4 floors)
    Burn Building = 8 points (Must be made of Non-Flammable materials)
    1,500 SQ FT combustible liquid pit = 5 points (Can use a video and anti-burn SOP)
    Training library and Training manuals = 2 points (IFSTA, Fire Chiefs Handbook)
    Visual Aids = 2 points (Slide and movie projector, pump and hydrant cutaways)
    Open training area of 2 acres = 10 points (Can be streets and parking lots)

    Use of above facilities = percentage of use X total of points for training aids
    For full credit;
    8 multi-company drills annually, each 3 hours long, 2 of the 8 conducted at night, with 100% attendance, or more drills to assure 100% attendance. Drills need to be conducted at your training grounds or with your training facilities.

    Company training = 25 points

    Every member receiving 20 hours per month of classroom or drill ground training, in addition to the multi-company drills in USE above

    Officer training = 15 points

    All officers receiving two (2) six hour classes annually (Leadership, administration, supervision, management and meetings covering strategies and tactics)

    Pre-Fire plans = 15 points

    The ISO™ expects all drawings and data on all commercial and public buildings as well as multi-family dwellings (larger than 1 to 4 family) to be updated yearly. In addition, they want all pre-plan properties reviewed twice yearly by firefighters in the form of company inspections or review of pre-plan books. Written records of updates and pre-plan reviews must be maintained if you want collect credit in the category.

    Recruit Training = 5 points

    Every recruit must receive 240 hours of recruit training

    New Driver Training = 2 points

    All new drivers must receive 40 hours of new driver training

    Driver Training = 2 points

    ALL existing drivers must receive four (4) three (3) hour sessions annually

    Radiological monitoring/ Hazardous material training = 1 point

    One (1) three hour class annually for ALL members

    I should point out that the comment that "Training is only 9% of your grade" is not totally accurate, There are 50 points available for the fire department in the ISO rating schedule... 9 points is for training, only Personnel, 15 and Engine credit, 10 score higher... another way to look at it is this... it is 18% of your TOTAL score for fire department...
    Now in the OVERALL score it is 9%... until you get to divergence... Thats the points you lose because ISO has a formula to multiply the total fire department score by 80% and then subtract the smaller of the two scores between water and fire... arriving at a number they then divide in half... final number is then subtracted from your overall score... or a possible 16.2 points of a 100 point rating!!

    Now, all that aside... the real reason we assist fire department's is this.... to help you become the BEST that you can be... by doing that you will score better in an ISO rating...

    Training is probably one of the most important things you do in the fire service...... It may save YOUR life and you can't even begin to do your job without it.... We just assist you to get credit for what you are doing more than likely anyway...

    As others have pointed out.... Thank you by the way... Our book is free... www.isoslayer.com

    David

    Have your department considered outside sources of training, to make it easier on people trying to get training..

    http://www.openpublicsafetyinstitute.org/

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