1. #1
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    Default 2 1/2" Attack lines

    Looking for information from Medium to large size city's. Does your department have 2 1/2" attack line standard on Engine Company's, and is it used often?

    Thanks.
    A Fire Chief has ONLY 1 JOB and that's to take care of his fireman. EVERYTHING else falls under this.

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    We have 2" lines preconnected on a crosslay, and wel also carry 500' of 2 1/2" and 500' of 3" in hosebeds on the rear. The 2 1/2" has a nozzle on the end and there is a rear discharge to connect to. The 3" has a 2 1/2" to 2-1 1/2" ball valves for extending our 1 3/4" lines, or we can take the valve off and use a Blitz fire nozzle. The 2" line is easier to manuever inside a structure, but still puts out a lot of GPM's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    The 2" line is easier to manuever inside a structure, but still puts out a lot of GPM's.
    the nozzle and pressure delievered to it is the determining factor for the flow.

    we are a suburban department and use 2.5" with 1 1/4" tips. every engine in our area has them. some have the triple stack tips on them (i don't have a good reason why). most of the pumpers have a crosslay and a static bed of 2.5".
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    http://youtu.be/uKtGvR5mksk ...after the first minute of poor small diameter hose handling it shows the push/pull with a 2&1/2 using the "nozzle forward" technique.

    http://youtu.be/BLdACum_SJY ...this one explains the "nozzle forward" technique.
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    A 2" line is a good bridge between the 1 3/4" line and the 2 1/2" line. You don't have to have as high a pressure to overcome friction loss. At a certain point the pressure needed to deliver a certain flow becomes impractical and you go to a larger hose.

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    We carry a 150' crosslay and also a 500' Stretch bed of 2 1/2" with a smooth bore, 1 1/4 if I remember correctly. Recently been doing a lot of training with them and have learned a lot of new techniques for maneuvering and using. Also figured out that we were over pressurizing them which was part of the issue in the past of guys not wanting to use them. Google Nozzle forward, some great ideas there on handling them. Our Operational procedures call for us to pull a 2 1/2 on all commercial fires, so having better ways to use them is a big plus.

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    My career FD uses a combination of 2 1/2 inch preconnects and deadlay beds. The deadlay beds are 2 types, one is 600 feet with the last hundred bundled with a combo nozzle backed by a 1 1/8 inch slug tip, the other is 500 feet with the male end out. We can use that to feed standpipes, as an apartment line, or to feed portable master streams.

    My #1 POC FD doesn't use 2 1/2 at all we use only 2 inch with a 200 gpm combo tip backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip.

    My #2 POC FD uses 2 1/2 preconnects, as well as dead lay beds off the rear.
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    We have a combination department and our motto is "big fire, big hose" , all our trucks have preconnected 2.5's for deployment whenever we see fit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    We have a combination department and our motto is "big fire, big hose" , all our trucks have preconnected 2.5's for deployment whenever we see fit
    what kind of tips and flows do you outfit the hose with?
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    our cross lays have saber-jet combination nozzles, but we do have stack tips available if needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    our cross lays have saber-jet combination nozzles, but we do have stack tips available if needed

    You run Saberjet Nozzles on your 2 1/2 inch hose lines? Why? The largest smoothbore is a 1 inch, 209 gpm at 50 psi, and the fog tip flows 135 gpm at 100 psi. Both of those are flows easily available from a 1 3/4 inch line.

    We use a 200 gpm at 75 psi combination nozzle, backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip flowing around 300 gpm at just over 40 psi at the tip on our 2 inch hose.
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    heck I dunno..thats why i'm just the FF lol.. just what the brass wanted to use I guess lol seems to work out well

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    heck I dunno..thats why i'm just the FF lol.. just what the brass wanted to use I guess lol seems to work out well
    i know you say you are just a ff, and you say it as a joke but it is reality that you are pulling that hose.
    get to know your flows and hoseline capabilities and limitations. as a ff i helped usher in a change to higher flow lower reaction forced nozzles on all our attack lines, master streams, and helped impliment blitz nozzles. (this was with the help of a few other ff's and some company officers). you can make a difference.

    get to know not only your nozzles but also the other companies and departments that you respond with. it may not be the difference on the very next fire, or it might be.

    i had been a ff but i am now a company officer and a fire instructor, but still am a fireman. but still it is not how you may test and what rank you achieve, but what you do in each of those ranks.
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    You run Saberjet Nozzles on your 2 1/2 inch hose lines? Why? The largest smoothbore is a 1 inch, 209 gpm at 50 psi, and the fog tip flows 135 gpm at 100 psi. Both of those are flows easily available from a 1 3/4 inch line.
    Exactly!!

    We have a SaberJet nozzle on my engine's 2-1/2. Everything else on the engine, including the deck gun and step gun, came with smoothbore nozzles on delivery and for some unknown reason, they got that for the biggest handline. The best part is that it came with a 7/8 inch tip insert. The small line nozzles are 1" and the other SabreJets we have are 15/16" tips.

    I pointed out this "issue" to those responsible, but they didn't seem to see the problem that I did. Personally, I'll never pull that line off. Why bother when the smaller lines will always outflow it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    our cross lays have saber-jet combination nozzles, but we do have stack tips available if needed
    On a 2.5? Why? What a waste of hose. Just switch to 1.5 and save all the trouble.
    Bring enough hose.

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    Engine in my house has
    1 3/4".......20 lengths
    2 1/2".......15 lengths
    5"............10 lengths (100ft)
    No pre-connects except 50ft trash line in bumper.

    My rig
    One 75ft length 3" for ladder pipe. That's generally all the hose I deal with.
    Last edited by len1582; 02-09-2012 at 07:52 PM.

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    Pretty big but very busy metro fire dept. 400 line personel. We have two 200' 2" preconnects. We also have a 100' 3" line preconnects to a rear discharge. This line could be use for interior attack which I've done... although a pain in the ARZZ, it can put some dang fire out. haha. 80% of the time it is used as a cover line, for exposures.
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    Most Engine Companies here have two 2.5 inch attack lines. Length varies by company. Generally, one has a smoothbore nozzle, and the other has a fog.

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    My career department has two 2.5 preconnects coming off the rear of each engine on has a solid bore nozzle the other a fog. Our standard attack lines are 1.75 cross lays but as someone else stated "large fire-large hose".
    FF II, EMT-P, Hazmat Tech

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    Quote Originally Posted by JTFIRE80 View Post
    Looking for information from Medium to large size city's. Does your department have 2 1/2" attack line standard on Engine Company's, and is it used often?

    Thanks.
    We have 250ft preconnected off of the rear of our engines and use smooth bore nozzles that have stacked tips of 1-1/8", and 1-1/4" tips.

    It not used as much as I would like, but I train with it a lot. I would love to see an SOP stating it will be the first line off for fires in commercial buildings, and for use to change all of our high-rise packs to 2-1/2" hose.

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