1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post
    I have to say that I am a big proponent of this tactic and we use it a lot. We actually had a structure fire this morning and used it. It buys us quite a bit of time to get alot done with limited man power.

    Our Monitor uses a 250GPM nozzle and we carry 1,000 gallons of water. Needless to say, you can get a lot of things done in 4 minutes with just a few people and keep the fire at bay until you can make an all out attack. We have never lost a structure where we have used this type of attack and we will continue to use it because it works great for us!

    Lots of good discussion here! Love hearing everyones differing opinions, give you a lot to think about!
    What type of nozzle do you use on the deck gun?
    Bring enough hose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    What type of nozzle do you use on the deck gun?
    Well its only a 2 1/2" Monitor and we just have a standard 2 1/2" Combination nozzle on it. We're about the only Dept. in our area that has that small of a Monitor, most everyone else has 3" Deluge guns and they don't like the "dump the tank through the gun" tactic.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    So there you have it, my opinion. With that and a buck fifty, you may get a cup of coffee. I even managed to do that with out crapping on anyone or insulting another's opinion.
    My respect for your (for what its worth) continues to grow.

    Great comments.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    On the subject of the tactic (not this instance of it) the advantage of going with the deck gun first is that it quickly provides big water without a lot of manpower (as SPFDRum mentions). The disadvantage is that it's location is fixed so it cannot be maneuvered or advanced after the initial knock. Also the flow of most guns I've seen are controlled from the panel (vs at the gun itself) so they could suck down more water then a 2.5" or blitz where the control is at the nozzle itself.
    There really isn't much of a difference regarding the control of the flow between these options. As long as the pump operator is paying attention to what's going on, which he better be doing if dumping the tank on a blitz, he has the same ability to control the flow from the panel.

    The main reason why the deck gun will typically suck down more water than the 2.5" or something like the Blitzfire is because it can. The top end of most 2.5" lines is in the low-mid 300 gpm range. Blitzfire type monitors typically top out around 500 gpm. Most deck guns are capable of at least 1000 gpm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    ...
    **As far as the perceived delay in bringing the deck gun on line, I don't know; was it pre-plumbed? Is it locked in a goofy position? Is it telescoping and it needs to be extended to clear the cab? From the video, I can't tell. But the 2 1/2 wasn't in a position to be effective anyway at the time the deck gun was charged. But it was in a great position to hit the roof of the porch where the deck gun missed when it was shut down. Not to mention, by this time, there was enough man power to advance it.
    ...
    Seemed to me like the guys had the 2 1/2 on the side ready to attack and push the fire back out, along the front and not in. They could have started knocking it down it down on the side and moved along the front to then make entry. It also seemed to me the line was stretched and connected, prior to the deck gun being charged. Looked like the guys gave up waiting once the deck gun got charged.


    Was the deck gun attack a valid one? Sure.

    Was it what I (my Dept) would have done? Nope.


    Would I criticize this department over it? Nope. Just discussing a tactic. I'm sure they have their reasons for what they did.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Like i stated in my orginal post. The tactic worked and is a valid one. However it is not what i would have chosen given my staffing and equipment. i personally do not think that this thread has bashed anyone or this department in the video.

    However anytime a thread with a video is post some form of MMQBing has to take place. That is the whole point to discuss the pros and cons. It is a critque so to speak of the operation filmed. As long as the comments are objective and not insulting what is the problem? personally I learn alot by this type of thread. At this we are having a discussion about fire ground tactics and not one person has asked what type of light is on the rear of the engine.

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    spfdrum did you mean the 2-1/2 was in a better position to hit the ceiling? Or did you mean roof? and im missing something
    ?

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    does anyone else think that there needs to be a line kept at the porch to prevent reignition?
    Originally Posted by madden01
    "and everyone is encouraged to use Plain, Spelled Out English. I thought this was covered in NIMS training."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    There really isn't much of a difference regarding the control of the flow between these options. As long as the pump operator is paying attention to what's going on, which he better be doing if dumping the tank on a blitz, he has the same ability to control the flow from the panel.
    The point I was trying to make is that the deck gun is usually a two-man operation. One up top to direct the stream and the pump operator to open/close the valve. Compare this with a 2.5" line or 3" blitz where one person can direct the stream and control the flow from the tip. Having the pump operator directly tied into the operation of the deck gun means they have to pay more attention to that and less to all the other things they need to be doing as first-in... In the video it looks like the pump operator is also trying to secure the water supply from the pony as well as making sure the hand-line gets connected.. hard to do that when they're tied to the deck gun valve.

    TL;DR: How many of you who have deck guns have a valve at the monitor itself?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    **As far as the perceived delay in bringing the deck gun on line, I don't know; was it pre-plumbed? Is it locked in a goofy position? Is it telescoping and it needs to be extended to clear the cab? From the video, I can't tell.
    Good points. I've been in the position of having a reserve engine with a telescoping monitor that we weren't familiar with. Certainly can add time to the operation. Another factor may be tank size.. if the Engine only has a small tank they may not want to go to the Deck Gun right away.
    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    **As far as using a 2 1/2 or an 1 3/4, with the benefit of hindsight and getting to watch the whole video, sure, maybe. But initially when they arrived, are you sure its just siding? Or just an exterior fire? Its much quicker to transition from a deck gun to hand lines than the other way around. Especially if you are working with limited man power.
    Seeing it from the first-in view, the 2.5" would have been the first line off.. deck gun or no. No disagreement there.

    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    So there you have it, my opinion. With that and a buck fifty, you may get a cup of coffee. I even managed to do that with out crapping on anyone or insulting another's opinion.
    Good post, and good points.
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    Tell me why it costs so much to live
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Ahhh, the joys of the firehouse forums. Lets honestly assess this:
    3) There is a percentage of drivers that may not even find the address
    4) There are others that may get it there, but couldn't get into pump to save their life. Let alone enough interior firefighters to do anything
    5) There is another percentage that may not even know what a deck gun is
    6) Finally I would venture to guess there is even a few on here, that presented with that situation, would completely vapor lock and not do anything.
    I would consider these points as crapping on people.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I really don't need to get down with my bad self, but this is my career, not a hobby.
    I don't get a paycheck, but I most certainly do not consider it a hobby either.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  13. #63
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    Seemed to me like the guys had the 2 1/2 on the side ready to attack and push the fire back out, along the front and not in. They could have started knocking it down it down on the side and moved along the front to then make entry. It also seemed to me the line was stretched and connected, prior to the deck gun being charged. Looked like the guys gave up waiting once the deck gun got charged.
    Bones; I had to go back and look, but here is what I came up with. :57 2 1/2 pulled, 2:20 2 1/2 split and hooked, 2:33 first water from the deck gun. At this time, it appears the 2 1/2 is still being stretched down the Bravo side. But yes, I would venture to guess that the 2 1/2 in lieu of a deck gun would be chosen more. Add A foam, you have a potent option.

    spfdrum did you mean the 2-1/2 was in a better position to hit the ceiling? Or did you mean roof? and im missing something
    The under side of the porch is still going fairly well after the initial knock with the deck gun. By the time they shut down the deck gun, the handline crew got themselves into a great position to mop that up and and enough people to move interior.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    I would consider these points as crapping on people.
    And in all the time you have been on these forums, with all the people that have come and gone, none of those points have crossed your mind. Especially with certain people here dead set against making an interior attack...

    I don't get a paycheck, but I most certainly do not consider it a hobby either.
    And please note that I said career as opposed to professional. Huge effing difference. You know that as well as I do.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    And in all the time you have been on these forums, with all the people that have come and gone, none of those points have crossed your mind. Especially with certain people here dead set against making an interior attack...
    There are probably some who couldn't spell "fire" if you spotted them the F-RE. But you were implying that among previous posters there was a level of incompetence that would be horrifying to think could be that widespread. I sincerely hope that there are only a very few really dumb ones floating around here.
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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    There are probably some who couldn't spell "fire" if you spotted them the F-RE. But you were implying that among previous posters there was a level of incompetence that would be horrifying to think could be that widespread. I sincerely hope that there are only a very few really dumb ones floating around here.
    I was hoping to avoid singling out this thread by adding "the joys of firehouse forums", as a whole. In that I failed...
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I was hoping to avoid singling out this thread by adding "the joys of firehouse forums", as a whole. In that I failed...
    No, I understood that. And I still really REALLY hope there aren't many who are that stupid.

    But there might be...
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    No, I understood that. And I still really REALLY hope there aren't many who are that stupid.

    But there might be...
    Thats two of us. But thankfully there is still a good group of intelligent posters that know the job, get the job, do the job, and train for the job. That's what keeps me coming back.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Thats two of us. But thankfully there is still a good group of intelligent posters that know the job, get the job, do the job, and train for the job. That's what keeps me coming back.
    Me too. As a member of a volunteer department that set a record with a big 180 runs last year, I count on these forums to provide knowledge that experience gives you in busier places.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    From the For Sale sign on the left part of the front yard, I would think the house may be vacant. I couldn't any other indicators giving it a live in look.
    A For Sale sign doesn't mean the house is vacant. I see many signs and there are still people living there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    spencer, i agree. plus i want something to protect the outside incase it may light off again.it is definitely a 2 line fire. one to protect outside and egress and one to stop it inside.[/B]
    I have to disagree. A line going interior, especially if there was a considerable amount of fire on arrival, should have a backup ling stretched. I would have a 3rd line, 1 3/4", pulled. It would back up the first if there was considerable fire on the first floor or branch off in another direction if there were several rooms involved. If there was fire on the first and second floors it could go above, hit some fire and begin searching. If not immediately needed the crew could just stand by off to the side with it dry until they know exactly what they're dealing with.
    If this frame building is balloon construction it's not unheard of to have burning embers drop down into the basement (if there is one) and start a fire there. And since fire will also travel up there could very well be extension above. Even if not showing on the 2nd floor it can shoot up the bays between the studs and ignite in the kock-loft* or attic.

    *have to spell it that way or it gets deleted.
    Last edited by len1582; 02-01-2012 at 04:22 PM.

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    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    [sarcasm] In my neck of the woods its known as the ground[/sarcasm]

    I know what you're saying but I had to put in my wise-***** comment.

    I think I would have stretched the 2 1/2 and knocked down the porch as quickly as possible. If it took too long to get the 2 1/2 stretched the deck gun is a good quick hit. Mop it up with the 1 3/4.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Me too. As a member of a volunteer department that set a record with a big 180 runs last year, I count on these forums to provide knowledge that experience gives you in busier places.
    And many times I've come here and learned tricks to do more with less. A trademark of a good vollie/POC department. It's also nice to get a chief officer's perspective.
    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    I couldn't tell from the video if it was a finished ceiling. You must have had a better view than me.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2FF View Post
    [sarcasm] In my neck of the woods its known as the ground[/sarcasm]

    I know what you're saying but I had to put in my wise-***** comment.

    I think I would have stretched the 2 1/2 and knocked down the porch as quickly as possible. If it took too long to get the 2 1/2 stretched the deck gun is a good quick hit. Mop it up with the 1 3/4.
    Lewiston -I stand corrected- how about calling it the underside of the roof ? I would hate to tell em to to hit the "underside of the porch" and see someone drag out the piercing and or cellar nozzle.
    ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    The point I was trying to make is that the deck gun is usually a two-man operation. One up top to direct the stream and the pump operator to open/close the valve. Compare this with a 2.5" line or 3" blitz where one person can direct the stream and control the flow from the tip. Having the pump operator directly tied into the operation of the deck gun means they have to pay more attention to that and less to all the other things they need to be doing as first-in... In the video it looks like the pump operator is also trying to secure the water supply from the pony as well as making sure the hand-line gets connected.. hard to do that when they're tied to the deck gun valve.
    While it's true that the reaction times for controlling the flow may not be exactly the same, it shouldn't be that fare apart. A good pump operator should be able to make the intake and discharge connections at the panel and still maintain control of the deck gun's flow.

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