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  1. #61
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Ahhh, the joys of the firehouse forums. Lets honestly assess this:
    3) There is a percentage of drivers that may not even find the address
    4) There are others that may get it there, but couldn't get into pump to save their life. Let alone enough interior firefighters to do anything
    5) There is another percentage that may not even know what a deck gun is
    6) Finally I would venture to guess there is even a few on here, that presented with that situation, would completely vapor lock and not do anything.
    I would consider these points as crapping on people.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  2. #62
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I really don't need to get down with my bad self, but this is my career, not a hobby.
    I don't get a paycheck, but I most certainly do not consider it a hobby either.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  3. #63
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Seemed to me like the guys had the 2 1/2 on the side ready to attack and push the fire back out, along the front and not in. They could have started knocking it down it down on the side and moved along the front to then make entry. It also seemed to me the line was stretched and connected, prior to the deck gun being charged. Looked like the guys gave up waiting once the deck gun got charged.
    Bones; I had to go back and look, but here is what I came up with. :57 2 1/2 pulled, 2:20 2 1/2 split and hooked, 2:33 first water from the deck gun. At this time, it appears the 2 1/2 is still being stretched down the Bravo side. But yes, I would venture to guess that the 2 1/2 in lieu of a deck gun would be chosen more. Add A foam, you have a potent option.

    spfdrum did you mean the 2-1/2 was in a better position to hit the ceiling? Or did you mean roof? and im missing something
    The under side of the porch is still going fairly well after the initial knock with the deck gun. By the time they shut down the deck gun, the handline crew got themselves into a great position to mop that up and and enough people to move interior.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  4. #64
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    I would consider these points as crapping on people.
    And in all the time you have been on these forums, with all the people that have come and gone, none of those points have crossed your mind. Especially with certain people here dead set against making an interior attack...

    I don't get a paycheck, but I most certainly do not consider it a hobby either.
    And please note that I said career as opposed to professional. Huge effing difference. You know that as well as I do.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
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  5. #65
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    And in all the time you have been on these forums, with all the people that have come and gone, none of those points have crossed your mind. Especially with certain people here dead set against making an interior attack...
    There are probably some who couldn't spell "fire" if you spotted them the F-RE. But you were implying that among previous posters there was a level of incompetence that would be horrifying to think could be that widespread. I sincerely hope that there are only a very few really dumb ones floating around here.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  6. #66
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    There are probably some who couldn't spell "fire" if you spotted them the F-RE. But you were implying that among previous posters there was a level of incompetence that would be horrifying to think could be that widespread. I sincerely hope that there are only a very few really dumb ones floating around here.
    I was hoping to avoid singling out this thread by adding "the joys of firehouse forums", as a whole. In that I failed...
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
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    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  7. #67
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    I was hoping to avoid singling out this thread by adding "the joys of firehouse forums", as a whole. In that I failed...
    No, I understood that. And I still really REALLY hope there aren't many who are that stupid.

    But there might be...
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
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  8. #68
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    No, I understood that. And I still really REALLY hope there aren't many who are that stupid.

    But there might be...
    Thats two of us. But thankfully there is still a good group of intelligent posters that know the job, get the job, do the job, and train for the job. That's what keeps me coming back.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
    "I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
    George Mason
    Co-author of the Second Amendment
    during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788
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  9. #69
    Forum Member EastKyFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPFDRum View Post
    Thats two of us. But thankfully there is still a good group of intelligent posters that know the job, get the job, do the job, and train for the job. That's what keeps me coming back.
    Me too. As a member of a volunteer department that set a record with a big 180 runs last year, I count on these forums to provide knowledge that experience gives you in busier places.
    "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.”
    --General James Mattis, USMC


  10. #70
    Forum Member len1582's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    From the For Sale sign on the left part of the front yard, I would think the house may be vacant. I couldn't any other indicators giving it a live in look.
    A For Sale sign doesn't mean the house is vacant. I see many signs and there are still people living there.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    spencer, i agree. plus i want something to protect the outside incase it may light off again.it is definitely a 2 line fire. one to protect outside and egress and one to stop it inside.[/B]
    I have to disagree. A line going interior, especially if there was a considerable amount of fire on arrival, should have a backup ling stretched. I would have a 3rd line, 1 3/4", pulled. It would back up the first if there was considerable fire on the first floor or branch off in another direction if there were several rooms involved. If there was fire on the first and second floors it could go above, hit some fire and begin searching. If not immediately needed the crew could just stand by off to the side with it dry until they know exactly what they're dealing with.
    If this frame building is balloon construction it's not unheard of to have burning embers drop down into the basement (if there is one) and start a fire there. And since fire will also travel up there could very well be extension above. Even if not showing on the 2nd floor it can shoot up the bays between the studs and ignite in the kock-loft* or attic.

    *have to spell it that way or it gets deleted.
    Last edited by len1582; 02-01-2012 at 04:22 PM.

  11. #71
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    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    ?

  12. #72
    Forum Member Lewiston2FF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    [sarcasm] In my neck of the woods its known as the ground[/sarcasm]

    I know what you're saying but I had to put in my wise-***** comment.

    I think I would have stretched the 2 1/2 and knocked down the porch as quickly as possible. If it took too long to get the 2 1/2 stretched the deck gun is a good quick hit. Mop it up with the 1 3/4.
    Shawn M. Cecula
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  13. #73
    Truckie SPFDRum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Me too. As a member of a volunteer department that set a record with a big 180 runs last year, I count on these forums to provide knowledge that experience gives you in busier places.
    And many times I've come here and learned tricks to do more with less. A trademark of a good vollie/POC department. It's also nice to get a chief officer's perspective.
    the underside of the porch is known as the "ceiling" in my neck of the woods. Not the roof.
    I couldn't tell from the video if it was a finished ceiling. You must have had a better view than me.
    My posts reflect my views and opinions, not the organization I work for or my IAFF local. Some of which they may not agree. I.A.C.O.J. member
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewiston2FF View Post
    [sarcasm] In my neck of the woods its known as the ground[/sarcasm]

    I know what you're saying but I had to put in my wise-***** comment.

    I think I would have stretched the 2 1/2 and knocked down the porch as quickly as possible. If it took too long to get the 2 1/2 stretched the deck gun is a good quick hit. Mop it up with the 1 3/4.
    Lewiston -I stand corrected- how about calling it the underside of the roof ? I would hate to tell em to to hit the "underside of the porch" and see someone drag out the piercing and or cellar nozzle.
    ?

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by voyager9 View Post
    The point I was trying to make is that the deck gun is usually a two-man operation. One up top to direct the stream and the pump operator to open/close the valve. Compare this with a 2.5" line or 3" blitz where one person can direct the stream and control the flow from the tip. Having the pump operator directly tied into the operation of the deck gun means they have to pay more attention to that and less to all the other things they need to be doing as first-in... In the video it looks like the pump operator is also trying to secure the water supply from the pony as well as making sure the hand-line gets connected.. hard to do that when they're tied to the deck gun valve.
    While it's true that the reaction times for controlling the flow may not be exactly the same, it shouldn't be that fare apart. A good pump operator should be able to make the intake and discharge connections at the panel and still maintain control of the deck gun's flow.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    While it's true that the reaction times for controlling the flow may not be exactly the same, it shouldn't be that fare apart. A good pump operator should be able to make the intake and discharge connections at the panel and still maintain control of the deck gun's flow.
    Agreed. I was picturing a situation where setting up the water supply took the operator away from the panel temporarily.. like hitting the hydrant with the pony.
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  17. #77
    MembersZone Subscriber ffmedcbk1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by len1582 View Post
    A For Sale sign doesn't mean the house is vacant. I see many signs and there are still people living there.



    I have to disagree. A line going interior, especially if there was a considerable amount of fire on arrival, should have a backup ling stretched. I would have a 3rd line, 1 3/4", pulled. It would back up the first if there was considerable fire on the first floor or branch off in another direction if there were several rooms involved. If there was fire on the first and second floors it could go above, hit some fire and begin searching. If not immediately needed the crew could just stand by off to the side with it dry until they know exactly what they're dealing with.
    If this frame building is balloon construction it's not unheard of to have burning embers drop down into the basement (if there is one) and start a fire there. And since fire will also travel up there could very well be extension above. Even if not showing on the 2nd floor it can shoot up the bays between the studs and ignite in the kock-loft* or attic.

    *have to spell it that way or it gets deleted.

    Yes it is. I was only trying to say that the line to hit the porch fire should not go in with out someone with an operating hose taking control of the porch.
    Originally Posted by madden01
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  18. #78
    Forum Member CaptOldTimer's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=len1582;1316964]A For Sale sign doesn't mean the house is vacant. I see many signs and there are still people living there.

    This is true. It may an indicator that the house is vacant. I wasn't there. I didn't see toys in the yard, on the porch, cars in the driveway either. The video was when it was well involved, so we couldn't see if curtains were at the windows, the shades drawn or lights on inside the house.

    Also not sure if joe doaks from the local tv outlet knew any more than he was trying to report on.

    As a tactical view the use of the deck pipe was in order. the hand line could have been deployed faster.

    End of critique.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by ffmedcbk1 View Post
    does anyone else think that there needs to be a line kept at the porch to prevent reignition?
    Definitely. That kind of hits my point of a few guys standing around with no packs on. Where all that fire is coming out on the porch is directly over their line. A couple of guys with a trash line and a hook would be a good thing. Perfect job opportunity for a couple of those guys that aren't otherwise occupied. That porch probably has some substantial framing in it, but you never know how much rot or termite damage might be going on. There's always the possibility that there could be a collapse of the porch roof. Remember to protect your egress points.

  20. #80
    MembersZone Subscriber Dickey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    There are probably some who couldn't spell "fire" if you spotted them the F-RE.
    Can I buy an "A" please??


    Seriously, I think the knockdown with the deck gun was a good one. Won't always work in every situation but it did in this one. I agree that it seems there is a bit of confusion at first but they got it together pretty quick. God knows we have had some confusion in the past at our fires. It looks to me like maybe there was fire in the first room there, maybe not. that's why it came back so quick I think.

    The idea of breaking off 50ft. of 2.5 doesn't make sense to me. By the time you pull that off, break it, and hook it up, the deck gun can already be going by opening the valve and aiming. I like to work smarter, and easier too. That to me seems more work than benefit.

    But, there is never just one way to skin the cat. By coming here and having discussions, either colorful or vanilla as you like, you still learn from it. Now maybe the next fire they go to the deck gun would harm the situation?
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