1. #1
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    Default Good call on the deck gun

    Get the first line into operation.

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    Two thumbs up for sure..that was a pretty quick knock considering the amount of fire they had when they arrived. Glad to see someone utilizing the deck gun, depts around where I live often forget about it, and go to pulling multiple ground lines and simply **** away the water they have available. Great video thanks for sharing!

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    Imagine if they charged that 2 1/2" off the back instead....


    then they could have gotten to the fire under the roof that the deck gun couldn't get at and you see still burning once the deck gun stops.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    I gotta go with Bones on that one. Would have gotten into service quicker as well. Not to take away from them hitting it hard, but if we are nit-picking.

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    The fire clearly was confined to the exterior, so I would have been concerned that the deck gun might have pushed heat inside. A little nonsurgical for this application.

    Kinda looks like the engineer got impatient with the guys stretching hose and said, "Screw it, I'm knocking it down myself."
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    Pretty much textbook to me. Knock down the exterior with the deckgun until your lines are in place and water supply is set. Good work all around. I know there are other ways to attack this that I would agree with, but I like the idea that they recoginzed the fire spread potenial on the exterior of the structure and got water on it as fast as possible. Again good sound tactics.
    Last edited by Capt-nj; 01-27-2012 at 02:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt-nj View Post
    Pretty much textbook to me. Knock down the exterior with the deckgun until your lines are in place and water supply is set. Good work all around. I know there are other ways to attack this that I would agree with, but I like the idea that they recoginzed the fire spread potenial on the exterior of the structure and got water on it as fast as possible. Again good sound tactics.
    I agree..I dont really think that hand line off the back would have done very much at all...and I really dont feel like the deck gun or the hand line would have made much difference on the "pushing it back" concept..either way you're attacking the fire from the exterior so it will naturally push the fire where ever it wants to go...

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    Overall not a bad job... The main goal was accomplished of getting the wet stuff on the red stuff, but for of the video, almost everyone one that company was standing around and looked kind of lost...

    Also, I don't know who it was, but it looked like 2 civilians were the ones charging the hydrant... At least that is what it looked like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuniorAFPD View Post
    Overall not a bad job... The main goal was accomplished of getting the wet stuff on the red stuff, but for of the video, almost everyone one that company was standing around and looked kind of lost...

    Also, I don't know who it was, but it looked like 2 civilians were the ones charging the hydrant... At least that is what it looked like.
    2nd that on the looking lost part lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    .either way you're attacking the fire from the exterior so it will naturally push the fire where ever it wants to go...
    Why does this push the fire? If you are using a straight stream, how do you push it? Or are you talking about spreading steam everywhere. If so, that will happen when you have that much fire and you add water. Might be what you were referring to. Just looking to clarify.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Why does this push the fire? If you are using a straight stream, how do you push it? Or are you talking about spreading steam everywhere. If so, that will happen when you have that much fire and you add water. Might be what you were referring to. Just looking to clarify.
    oh I was referring to EastKyFF's post about pushing heat inside the structure when attacking from outside...I just mean..that regardless what stream you attack with you do run the risk of "pushing" the fire to any unburned areas...when we flow water from a nozzle there is some..not much but some forward wind associated with it..in turn, "pushing" fire/heat in the direction you flow..thats my basic idea behind the post anyway..

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    How did the conditions in the interior change when that fire was attacked via the deck gun?

    Looked like there might have been more smoke and steam coming from the interior during and after.

    It knocked the fire down, but what else happened? Hard to say from a video, just food for thought, I guess.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    C'mon Chief, you know that there was definitely more steam (which makes it look like more smoke) after hitting it!

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    It didn't push it anywhere any worse that a 2.5 would have, and the fire was knocked down much quicker.

    As far as hand lines go, an 1.75 @150-200 would have knocked that down in less than a minute.
    Get the first line into operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    It didn't push it anywhere any worse that a 2.5 would have, and the fire was knocked down much quicker.

    As far as hand lines go, an 1.75 @150-200 would have knocked that down in less than a minute.
    Damn I feel sorry for your guys... 1 3/4" handline at 150-200psi ..phew!

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    Quote Originally Posted by FFEMT3633 View Post
    Damn I feel sorry for your guys... 1 3/4" handline at 150-200psi ..phew!
    Not PSI.... 150-200 GPM. We can get 150 GPM with our nozzles at around 110-120 PDP.
    Get the first line into operation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by L-Webb View Post
    Not PSI.... 150-200 GPM. We can get 150 GPM with our nozzles at around 110-120 PDP.
    LOL right on..well that I can definitely see, I sure was wondering about the other tho lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Capt-nj View Post
    ....Knock down the exterior with the deckgun until your lines are in place and water supply is set....
    The 2 1/2" was in place. It wasn't charged for an unknown to us reason (possibly due to operator worrying about deck gun instead). And the same water that went out the deck gun would have hit more of the fire via the 2 1/2".

    Is what they did bad/wrong? Nope. Just not, in my opinion, the best option.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    C'mon Chief, you know that there was definitely more steam (which makes it look like more smoke) after hitting it!
    So, are you saying you saw steam in the structure after this attack? I honestly can't tell.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I'm with Bones on this one.

    Is what they did bad/wrong? Nope. Just not, in my opinion, the best option.
    The deuce and a half was in place.
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    Wish we had a deck gun.
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    i dont agree that this was a "good job". confusion seemed to be happening on the 1st dues part.
    the brakes are set at :35, first water at 2:33....the deck gun was not a terrible choice in my opinion though.
    it all should have been a faster operation, now what we didn't see or hear may have been important. (was anyone reported as trapped, sop's that dictate need for hydrant supply to use 2.5" or greater???, ect...)



    given a 4 man crew i'd order 1 man to the hydrant, 1 man (assisted by the MPO initially) to get 50-100' of 2.5" pushing 325gpm being employed for an exterior knock down off the tankwater(1 man should pin it down to the ground), i'd complete the 360 survey. then discontinue the exterior line and have him with the hydrant man take a 1.75" in. (what i do as command is montior the need for the 2.5" on the outside)

    sounds confusing but it must be trained for. make the building and the fire behave, train to take these situations on. this is very simular to attached garage fires that we have had where the fire needs to behave and made to be controlled. we do not have lots of man power and the 2nd to 4th due are usally 5 to 10 mins out from when we arrive.
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    Looked like a long delay getting the line charged, maybe that's why the deck gun was opened....as an after thought out of frustration. The "nozzle-man" didn't seen too enthused. Just took it and walked away. NOTE..if you're going to use a line, take a few folds and flake it out. Looked like pulling more hose went on and on. Even if you don't have pre-connects, like my department, you have 500 gallons of water that can be used with a handline. Pull a few lengths, flake it out, hook it up, drop the tank. There was plenty of manpower to do that. Even an 1 3/4" as was mentioned flowing 175-200gpm would have been better than doing nothing. And can be positioned where needed. It's not always how much water you throw, it's where and how you apply it.

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    IMO not a bad call at all in using the deck gun given the volume of fire and the delay in getting the 2 1/2" into service.

    If you noticed, the 2 1/2" was not preconnected as it was being pulled from a dry load. Part of the delay was getting it broken and then connected to the discharge. The other delay was caused the firefighter originally pulling the load from the bed. After about 100', he simply stopped pulling the load and walked away to don an SCBA, and the other three members near the nozzle stood there for several seconds until one of them came back to the truck to finish pulling hose. In addition instead of actually pulling off several folds at a time, they were simply pulling it off hand over hand.

    The other issue is the issue my VFD is trying to overcome. For the past couple of weeks we have been working on a deck gun attack initially, and then transitioning to a handline. the issue they seem to have is they still don't understand that in order to be effective, the handline must be ready to go into service as soon as the deck gun attacked is ended. In this video, there was close to a minute between the time that the deck gun was shut down and the handline was put into service. IMO, that is simply too long.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    So, are you saying you saw steam in the structure after this attack? I honestly can't tell.
    After looking again, it is hard to tell, but there was a tremendous increase in steam when the fire was hit. I cant imagine there wasnt a place for that steam to enter into the interior, therefore I would assume that there was more steam on the inside.

    I dont say this as a bad thing, but an inevitability from the amount of heat and the amount of water. The fire needed to be hit with a large caliber straight stream. I think the 2.5 would have been better, but the deck gun worked. Gotta agree with the others who commented on the time it took to get it firing though. Looks like the holdup was a wait to hook to the hydrant. We would have hit it on tank water waiting for the hydrant.

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