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    Default Dash Support Pipe and Dash Tie Downs

    My March University of Extrication article will focus on how the newest vehicles are being designed with fatter A- and B-pillars. In the article, I use images from a 'body in white' display vehicle. It is a 2012 Cadillac ATS body.

    In the March article, I explain how this new design is very popular with many of the 2012 vehicles as the manufacturers strive to address improved crashworthiness. I make recommendations in how we will need to alter our dash rolling, dash jacking, and B-pillar removal evolutions to be ready for this new 'architecture'.

    The other opportunity that this structure gave me is to provide a good look at a dash support pipe and the two dash tie downs that secure the pipe to the center tunnel. Here are some images... Post any questions you have and I'll fill you in on this new design trend.
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    Hmm, this looks like a job for Sawzall Man! It will be interesting to see what all is gonna cover that center console.

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    A- and B-pillars are colored blue. What type steel are they using there? Recip. saw might be out of the question. Time to go old school with a K-12 again? Unless you bought a new set recently, most cutters will not go more than 60,000psi.
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiremanLyman View Post
    A- and B-pillars are colored blue. What type steel are they using there? Recip. saw might be out of the question. Time to go old school with a K-12 again? Unless you bought a new set recently, most cutters will not go more than 60,000psi.
    If you were replying to my statement about the sawzall, I was just referring to the two center supports, not the a posts. Should've made that clearer. I think any Boron capable cutter should be able to handle the posts though, I'd hate to have to use a K-12 on a car with a concious patient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    If you were replying to my statement about the sawzall, I was just referring to the two center supports, not the a posts. Should've made that clearer. I think any Boron capable cutter should be able to handle the posts though, I'd hate to have to use a K-12 on a car with a concious patient.
    Kidding about the K-12... be a sight to see though.

    Recip saw is usually my tool of choice, I really believe it is an often under-utilized tool.

    On a serious note, many departments have not caught up with the advancements in High Strength and Advanced/Ultra- High Strength Steels. Many cutters have been around for decades, and it wasn't till about 5 years ago that +200,000psi cutters have become mainstream. I work in a very well off department, we don't want for much, but our average cutter on the street produces +60,000psi. Not enough to get through the +1000MPa tensile strength of AHSS. What do you do then?
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
    USAR TF Rescue Specialist

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    Ron, if memory serves me correct pushing the dash with a Ram is actually easier with this type of construction correct? By this I mean, now instead of only being able to push from where the Pts. sit (primary area where we had good pushing metal/structural components) we are now able to push from the middle of the console and also the inside edge of the seats. A little "cheat" that we were taught and reminded of was to aim the Ram so it contacts where the dash curves. As far as dealing with the tie-downs push until they fail. We used those new Mercedes (we've discussed where before) for Dash Pushes and all I remember is the Ram may stall until it goes into the second pressure stage. Is my memory failing me on this? As far as Jacking the Dash, I can see how that's going to be a pain. Then again we only really need to displace the side and area that the Pt. is located in so the days of huge dash displacements may be over, but Dash Displacements are still a very viable option.

    Lyman, as far as your question on what to do we experimented and found that with our weaker Cutters we would "pie cut" the roof above the Posts. Doing this takes the Posts out of the equation and still allows removal of the roof. Same goes with doing a B-Post Blowout, pie cut the roof. It makes for more cutting but it worked well for us.

    Just sharing a few of my thoughts.....
    Last edited by mikeyboy; 02-07-2012 at 11:18 PM.
    "Be LOUD, Be PROUD..... It just might save your can someday when goin' through an intersection!!!!!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyboy View Post
    Lyman, as far as your question on what to do we experimented and found that with our weaker Cutters we would "pie cut" the roof above the Posts. Doing this takes the Posts out of the equation and still allows removal of the roof. Same goes with doing a B-Post Blowout, pie cut the roof. It makes for more cutting but it worked well for us.

    Just sharing a few of my thoughts.....
    Mikey- Sound tactic for sure, that is our latest method on total side removal. But you notice that the high strength steel continues across the roof on this model?
    ~Drew
    Firefighter/EMT/Technical Rescue
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    I could see where a ram might pop those center braces loose, but I think I'd try and saw them if I could. And if you have two front seat passengers it may be necessary to do it so when you roll the dash it doesn't act as a pivot point. I also try not to "pop" things as much as possible so it doesn't freak the Pt. out, but you can only hold the noise down so much. Good reminder on the pie cuts too.

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    Regarding this Body-in-White structure, there are eight(8) different types of metals used. Here are the color codes(although they are difficult to tell apart from each other);

    Silver : Aluminum
    Grayish/Pale Blue: Bake Hardenable Steel (Boron) Roof rail for example
    Purple/Blue: Press Hardened steel (more Boron) B-pillar for example
    Gray: Mild Steel (the old stuff that we are most accustomed to)
    Black: High Strentgh Low Alloy Steel Steel (can be cut with most cutters)
    Yellow/Pale Whiteish: Dual-Phase or Multi-Phase Steel (tough stuff)
    Martensite steel: Gold (really tough stuff here - newest generation cutters only; recip or air chisel can't do it)
    Lighter Black: Magnesium
    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
    www.universityofextrication.com

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    Close Up look at 2012 Cadillac ATS body structure A- & B-pillar area
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    Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
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