Reason for not hiring

[jasoncotting]

Nearly two years ago I got a great position on a hiring list for a big city fire department. The list is set to expire soon. During the time of this list's current use, HR informed me that I had made some progress in getting my number moved closer to 1 the list. I recently discovered after contacting HR that there have been several more people hired than there were positions in front of me on the list. I was then told by HR that I "did not meet the needs of the department".

I'm suspecting discrimination, but I need to know first. Is a fire department required by law to give you a specific reason as to why they chose not to hire you. Or can a chief use any reason to decide to skip you on the list? Is a fire department required to follow a list once they set one?

Seeing as how this is a public/govt position, I'm assuming that there are more strict guidelines that have to be followed as opposed to applying for a Mom and Pop store to mop the floor.

Thanks for any input

Jason

[fire5555]

Depends on the city, but most of the time they do not have to give a reason for bypassing you, and some do not have to go exactly in order

Suggest check that cities policy

[arharris83]

Self Delete

[ffmedicintheCLE]

Yep...agree with all of the above. I've seen lists where they jump numbers and I'm currently on are going right in order. (currently they've hired 6 and I was 10th when the list was initated but after hearing the number 8 guy didn't interview moved up to 9th and am currently waiting patiently in the 3rd spot)

...and points on your license? certifications? previous experiance? all of these any more can be issues or reasons why you got passed over. Now if you know or can prove that you got discriminated against...thats a different story.

[powerhourcoug]

Nearly two years ago I got a great position on a hiring list for a big city fire department. The list is set to expire soon. During the time of this list's current use, HR informed me that I had made some progress in getting my number moved closer to 1 the list. I recently discovered after contacting HR that there have been several more people hired than there were positions in front of me on the list. I was then told by HR that I "did not meet the needs of the department".

I'm suspecting discrimination, but I need to know first. Is a fire department required by law to give you a specific reason as to why they chose not to hire you. Or can a chief use any reason to decide to skip you on the list? Is a fire department required to follow a list once they set one?

Seeing as how this is a public/govt position, I'm assuming that there are more strict guidelines that have to be followed as opposed to applying for a Mom and Pop store to mop the floor.

Thanks for any input

Jason

Do you have any potential issues in your background?

Did you take a psych test?

When you mention 'discrimination'...how so? Are you male, female, white, black, brown, tall, short, fat, skinny, disabled (ADHD), etc?

[CaptBob]

Is this LA County???

Many larger city & county agencies have bands or rule of the list. I agree with the above posting. You entered into the hiring process and something could have taken you out. They aren't required to tell you why and you don't have any grounds to fall back on. For what ever reason you didn't make the cut. Even if you were able to talk to someone in HR you probably wouldn't learn what you really want to know why??? It just happens that way.

If you made it this far just move on and try and repeat the drill.

[jasoncotting]

Thanks for the input.

I am surprised to learn that the hiring list is not a solid order of hiring. Thanks for letting me know about that. If that's the case, what is the use for having a list? It just seems like a random picking at this point.

I have a spotless background. I can't imagine how there could be anything there that would have bumped me out. I've worked for a fire department before who commented that my background was the cleanest they had ever come across.

I can only suspect discrimination (religious) , but I can't prove it nor will I pursue it.

I'll continue pursuing my Paramedic to up my chances for the future.

Capt Bob, I already own your products, thanks for putting them together.

Jason

[fire5555]

There are many reasons a person high on a list might get passed over

[powerhourcoug]

There are many reasons a person high on a list might get passed over

Thanks for your earth shattering insight.

[fire5555]

Well he seems to be stuck on if you are first on the list you should be hired, and he was passed over for religious reasons.

Remember the Alamo

[JD2011]

I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Civil Service Rules of the jurisdiction you applied to. In most states, the State Law will require government organizations (like counties, cities and small municipalities with more than a few police officers or FFs) to create a Civil Service Commission, and also to create a document called "Civil Service Rules and Regulations" that govern their (the city's) policies and procedures. The city Civil Service Rules can vary a bit from the State law, but cannot be fundamentally different or contradictory. In your state, variances and interpretations of these two sets of rules have probably been tested by lawsuits and judgements, which are publicized on the web (Google key words). You should be able to determine pretty easily what the exact selection procedure is for the agencey you applied with. And you can also see any contested cases, and how the judicial system interpreted what was contested.

Most governmental agencies wll post their Civil Service Rules on the city website (usually under the "HR" section or in the "Commissions" section of the web site). Alternatively, cities are usually required to provide any citizen with a copy of it's Civil Service Rules on request. Do not be intimidated by the size of the document. In one section it will lay out the process that is used for testing, certifying, and selecting candidates for hire. The answers to your questions about "disclosure of reasons candidate was skipped" or other obligations by the hiring Agency will most likely be in this section.

As well intentioned as these Civil Service Rules and Regulations are, cities and other governmental agencies do not always follow their own Civil Service Rules and Regulations. There have been HUGE mistakes, and also PREMEDITATED discrimination (for and against candidates) throughout the history of the Fire Service.

My recommendation is for you to dive into the Civil Service Rules to get a better understanding of the process. With that understanding you will be better able to chart a course of what you want to do, and what attitude you want to imerse yourself in.

With a little searching on this forum, you will find the majority of FFs were once in your shoes. They were near the top of multiple lists and had multiple near hits...... and multiple misses....... over multilple years........ and then one finally hit for them.

If you do ever get into the service, challenge yourself to remember how destructive discrimination actually is..... and challenge yourself to keep it out of your decisions to hire someone.