1. #1
    Forum Member
    bjlffire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    Ne Missouri
    Posts
    342

    Default tanker/tender tank construction

    Waht would be the best material for a new tanker?
    Poly,Poly wrap in stanless or alluminum?

    Square, T or eliptical?

    Looking for 1800-2000 gal.
    Do not want wetside.

    Single or twin axel?

    Cahssis, International 7000mdl.

    Will have pto pump, 3 dumps, drop tank.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    28

    Default

    I can only give info on stainless and poly-wrapped as we have 1 of each.

    -Stainless tanks usually only carry a 20 year warranty.
    -Poly tanks can have up to lifetime warranty. As far as the wrap, its just another layer of protection for the tank.(Looks better too!)
    -we went eliptical because of the lower center of gravity compared to the others.
    -As far as axles, if you're not going over 2000 gals., you only need single axle.

    Both of ours are on IH 7600 chasiss and we're very happy with both.

  3. #3
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    We need more info. What equipment are you going to carry and how is the truck going to function? We just bought a custom 2500 gallon engine/tanker (Pierce). We wanted something that could funtion as an engine, a tanker, or as a water supply pumper.

    If our front line engine is down for any reason, we have enough compartment space to put the power unit and combo tool and some cribbing so it can respond with the rescue on accidents. It can also respond as a traditional engine company as it's equipped with crosslays, and a full hose bed and can carry 6 FF's. It has high side compartments on the drivers side, 3/4 high compartments on the officers side, with a drop down ladder rack. It will carry all the standard equipment of an engine plus a fan.

    It has a 2500 gal. tank and 3 10" newton dumps and a dump tank to function as a tanker. It can operate as a one man truck if need be.

    It can also function as a water supply truck if needed, it will have at least 1000' of 5" (more if it will fit). It also has hard suction and a front mounted swivel intake with hard suction and a low level strainer and will carry a Turbo-Draft as well.

    So it all depends on what you want it to do. We spent several months figuring how we wanted it to function in our operation. You should make it complement the other equipment you have, and the equipment that your mutual aid depts. has.

  4. #4
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Is this going to be tender for supply? Tankers are air borne for wild land fire fighting. Will the pump be setup for drafting or tank only suction? What type water drops are common,side discharge with in cab controls? How fast of load or unload time is required? How much hose will it be required to carry? Will it carry a drop tank or a self supporting tank?

  5. #5
    MembersZone Subscriber
    wischief's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Northern Wisconsin
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Tenders are deep fried and served with barbeque sauce. Can't remember the last time I was at a gasoline tender rollover. The government can call them whatever they want, but they are still a tanker truck and the others are airplanes.

  6. #6
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    Gotta chime in on the old tanker/tender discussion -never had any confusion on the fireground. We call them air tankers or fixed wing or retardent drop Maybe a written order , but verbal - never a problem
    ?

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Valley of Death, CA
    Posts
    151

    Default

    We call them water tenders or air tankers, no confusion that way. KISS.

  8. #8
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Stainless is a good choice for tanks over 2500 gallons for strength.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathValleyCap View Post
    We call them water tenders or air tankers, no confusion that way. KISS.
    Agreed - never heard an AIR tanker called just a tanker - I have always heard tenders called WATER tenders. Never had any confusion.
    ?

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    Fyrtrks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Binghamton,N.Y.
    Posts
    265

    Default

    This is my view point regardless of what you call it.

    1 I think everyone in the area should have just about the same size tank. I think 2,000 gallons is the prefect size. If your shuttle has 1 odd ball 3,000 gallon unit it will throw off the rotation. You should have that unit staged at the fire scene if there is an emergency with the shuttle.

    2 I think the most common is an elliptical S/S wrapped poly tank and a poly square side whether it be a wet side or not .

    3 The other option is aluminum like an adapted fuel tanker. A good local fuel tank builder can make sure that the tank is baffled correctly, he may not be familiar with installation of a pump module.

    4 For too many years there have been problems with stainless steel tanks leaking at weld points and also some reports of microbes affecting the tank as well.

    5 The new player is Glass Reinforced Polyester or (GRP). Yesterday I saw a 28 year old GRP crash truck in the factory for a refurbishment. The running gear was tired and the entire unit was getting a complete overhaul. The GRP is up and coming there were some very nice units in the factory.

    6 If you have a 2000 gallon tank then you will only need a single axle chassis 2500 will require a tandem. The gray area is there when you make the switch but I have never seen a 2250 tanker/tender (above ground mobile water transport unit)

    7 I have heard horror stories on just about every chassis manufacturer so your main concern will be service and ease of access to service.

    8 There has been one manufacturer of dump valves that I have seen problems with but that really has only been with one unit that needed to have the tank relocated. I suggested to one customer that they not have a rear dump. We are trying to build safety into our apparatus why are we still encouraging backing into a dump site?

    I would be happy to answer questions you have.
    Fyrtrks

  11. #11
    Reliance

    Join Date
    Feb 1999
    Location
    Yarmouth, N.S. Canada
    Posts
    142

    Default

    Other than being from Canada and reading on here a bit. Other than on a BBQ in the summer, What is the difference between a tender and a tanker for hauling water.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,029

    Default

    The term tender is generally used more in the wildland world - tanker in the structural.
    And Frytruck is spot on about trying to standardise the tankers. And to the OP -I prefer wrapped poly. Does SEMO still build tankers ? They should be in your neck of the woods.
    ?

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    Fyrtrks's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 1999
    Location
    Binghamton,N.Y.
    Posts
    265

    Default Semo Tank

    I do believe that Semo has moved to away from Fire Apparatus. I would say I am sure they could work with you.
    Fyrtrks

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    HuntPA's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Northwest PA
    Posts
    483

    Default

    I will have to refrain from answering until I know what you are trying to do.
    - If all you are doing is moving water from A to B without pumping, hose, or tools, and elliptical is great.
    - If this is a backup engine, water supply, and hose cart, then you probably want something else.

    As far as the axles, the more you have the higher the GVW. The higher the GVW, the more you can carry and the longer that chasis may last (assuming properly sized axles). With our roads, of which only 2 are paved, and the fact that we wanted to carry a lot of hose, tools, and additional items, we went with a tandem. If properly set up, there is not a lot of difference in the performance of one chassis to another.

    Again, what are you looking to do with the apparatus? Oh, and what is your budget, because that can really limit you?

  15. #15
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Agreed - never heard an AIR tanker called just a tanker - I have always heard tenders called WATER tenders. Never had any confusion.
    Around here it's not a problem, the only thing you're gonna get that flies here is a medical helicopter.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    85

    Default

    The one thing to consider is who is operating the tender. The more weight the more driver training involved. 2000 gallons plus the chassis is going to weigh around 28000 pounds. The lower the center of gravity the safer the vehicle's road handling attitude.

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    And HERE they are 3000 or you throw the rotation off. So the "perfect size" will be area dependent. Our new one will be a 3000 gallon vac tanker which CAN be run as a conventional tanker.

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Chief,

    Only because I have never had dealings with a vac tanker, what is the general price of a 3000 gallon unit on say an International chassis?

  19. #19
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    SW Missouri
    Posts
    1,154

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fyrtrks View Post
    I suggested to one customer that they not have a rear dump. We are trying to build safety into our apparatus why are we still encouraging backing into a dump site?
    While I understand your point, there are times that backing up to the tank is the only choice we have. I would at least want something on the back to be able to dump with. The location can play a huge roll in how things get set up.

  20. #20
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    85

    Default

    A rear "+" shaped 8" pipe with three valves would be the way I would want it setup. I would add a 3" vent the outlet to speed up the discharge rate. The other option would be a "T" with two 8" outlets with valves and 12 feet of hard plumbed discharge hose.

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by rmcatee1 View Post
    Chief,

    Only because I have never had dealings with a vac tanker, what is the general price of a 3000 gallon unit on say an International chassis?
    Quick quote pricing for us was in the $260 to 300k range depending on options. 4oo+ maxforce,allison 4000, 3500 water with a 500-750 pump and heavy rears.

  22. #22
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    A rear "+" shaped 8" pipe with three valves would be the way I would want it setup. I would add a 3" vent the outlet to speed up the discharge rate. The other option would be a "T" with two 8" outlets with valves and 12 feet of hard plumbed discharge hose.
    10" Newton dump valves will unload much faster.

  23. #23
    Forum Member
    Rescue101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Bridgton,Me USA
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    And a vac faster than that.

  24. #24
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    119

    Default

    Appreciate the response chief. Like I said, I have zero experience with them and I didn't know what the ball park prices were.

  25. #25
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    85

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    10" Newton dump valves will unload much faster.
    Newton valves or similar would work well. With three outlets with individual valves it will allow more options depending on the drop tank location on-scene. Three other items to consider,How much time do the members have to practice driving/operating the unit,what type of roads will it be operated on, Size restrictions of the district response areas.
    Last edited by SuperFire123; 02-25-2012 at 07:21 PM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. AFG Tanker/Tender App
    By SMNFirefighter in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-03-2011, 06:29 AM
  2. How big of a tank for a tender?
    By Wolf8552 in forum Federal FIRE ACT Grants & Funding
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 02-26-2006, 10:20 AM
  3. Tanker/Tender Baffles
    By SamsonFCDES in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-10-2004, 08:56 AM
  4. building a tanker tender
    By dlc702 in forum MembersZone Updates & Information
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-28-2003, 02:52 PM
  5. What size of tanker/tender is best?
    By Captain Mike in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 05-12-2001, 10:02 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register