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Thread: Austin Fire Exam, May 23rd 2012

  1. #851
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    Any out-of-towners still plan on going if hired?
    Last edited by psilentchild; 11-11-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #852
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilentchild View Post
    Any out-of-towners still plan on going if hired?
    Honestly, depends on the timing. if it's complete last minute, maybe. if there's some time to buy a ticket/hotel, i will plan on it. This is my 2nd year testing and i came close last year and i really like the city of austin and would love to move my family there.

  3. #853
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    Yes I am going to go back! I just transferred to Texas Tech. Bad decision, I miss Austin. But how are they going to do this you think?


    Like get the top applicants to do the Physical and mental/background/drug test at once?

    Cause I feel like it is appropriate to give some time to administer drug test. To get doctors notes and all in time. I don't know. How does that work? I plan on getting my wisdom teeth out maybe this break. Haha

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    Has anybody heard anything?

  5. #855
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    Quote Originally Posted by psilentchild View Post
    Has anybody heard anything?
    I think I heard a cricket...
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  6. #856
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    well two fire marshalls came into my work to inspect and i asked them about the test. they said it will most likely be scrapped. Who knows if they were just guessing or had some inside info so take it for what its worth. heresay

  7. #857
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    A person I spoked to said that there is still a chance for this year's hiring class and that a mutiple candidate list will be released, but this too is just a rumor.
    Last edited by Apollo85; 11-27-2013 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #858
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo85 View Post
    A person I spoked to said that there is still a chance for this year's hiring class and that a mutiple candidate list will be released, but this too is just a rumor.
    Hi, Apollo, thanks for sharing. What is a multiple candidate list versus a normal initial eligibility list? I know you say it's just a rumor but I was just wondering if your source was privy to some level of information or if it is just a theory.

    I, myself, have a theory. Judging by posts of last year's process, it took 2.5 months after the initial list was released for backgrounds/physicals/etc to complete and for conditional offers to go out, and an academy started about a month after that. AFD maintains they still plan to have an academy in early 2014. Assuming the latest that could be is March 31st and that remaining steps of the process take the same time, they could be aiming to release a list by mid December.

    I understand this is subject to DOJ timing but they have had a lot of time. But of course they could always just push things back again like they have been doing.

    Besides articles in the Statesman, the Austin IAFF website is a treasure trove of information about the ongoing political climate. They really are fighting it out.

  9. #859
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    Not the case. See iafflocal975.org for more information.

  10. #860
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    Sounds like a slow trudge to an end


    http://www.iafflocal975.org/items/AF...j%20update.pdf

  11. #861
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    I can't be the only one who didn't really get what that was saying. City/DOJ have an agreement but the department and AFA have no idea what it is yet?

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    Sounds like there is no agreement between anyone yet


    Remember talking about the Feds

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliciaaaaah View Post
    I can't be the only one who didn't really get what that was saying. City/DOJ have an agreement but the department and AFA have no idea what it is yet?
    No agreement yet. It will probably take a long time. As Fire49 said, these are the Feds. AFA are not involved because this is a lawsuit between the federal government and the City of Austin. But should any changes be made to their hiring structure in the course of a settlement of the lawsuit (known as a consent decree), AFA must be consulted because of Civil Service statutes and the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the union (AFA) and the City of Austin (AFD) that include the AFA in decision making about their hiring process as the AFA has a vested interest in the outcomes of hiring processes.

    The ongoing political dynamic is that the City wants control over the process to increase diversity through whatever means they can so if it can discredit the AFA, who had contributed to the design of hiring processes such as this one, with the result of a federal investigation calling it discriminatory, it will withhold evidence of the job relatedness and validity of the process which they paid over a million dollars for in order to gain political leverage to obtain such control over hiring processes in the future.

    The process is legal under federal law if there is evidence that the process was designed to measure job related, valid skills for the job. The reason you hire a vendor such as Morris & McDaniel is to conduct studies to find what skills are job related, how to measure them with a hiring process, conduct the hiring process, and--this is the key--to document the evidence as to the job relatedness and validity of the process, so that when the feds come knocking you can hand them the evidence and send them on their way. Clearly, the City has a different agenda as the vendor and AFA have not been invited to the table, and will not be, until absolutely required by legal due process described above. That will be very far down the road.

    Unfortunately, there are things out of everyone's control such as the political climate that are the real driving factors of this situation. Let's hope the Act of Council that's needed to approve an agreement between the City and the DOJ that would be forwarded to federal court for approval as a consent decree includes some provision that the 2013 process be allowed to resume with only minor, expedient changes. Council meets biweekly and not during the holidays.
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    Non update:


    Hiring Update (12/12/13)

    Discussions about the 2013 cadet hiring process with the U.S. Department of Justice are still in progress. We do not have new information at this time. Please continue to monitor this website. Thank you for your patience.

  15. #865
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    Talked with a few firefighters this weekend and they said everything they're getting/have been told is that we shouldn't expect a resolution any time soon. They also won't be starting 2014's process until this process is completely finished, which could be another year.

    One thing to note is that they said any hires brought on under the city's desired "consent decree" are going to be looked upon as lesser because they didn't meet the same standards and go through the same process as everyone else. Considering how much you rely on the people around you, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable being hired like that. Seems like it sets up years of hardship and having to prove yourself worse than you'd ever get as a 6 month probie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aliciaaaaah View Post
    Talked with a few firefighters this weekend and they said everything they're getting/have been told is that we shouldn't expect a resolution any time soon. They also won't be starting 2014's process until this process is completely finished, which could be another year.

    One thing to note is that they said any hires brought on under the city's desired "consent decree" are going to be looked upon as lesser because they didn't meet the same standards and go through the same process as everyone else. Considering how much you rely on the people around you, I'm not sure I'd be comfortable being hired like that. Seems like it sets up years of hardship and having to prove yourself worse than you'd ever get as a 6 month probie.
    I was thinking about this as well. It is going to be unfair to any cadet that gets through. For all we know, some of these cadets could have made it through with the normal circumstances, but that won't matter. I also don't blame current AFD firefighters feeling like that as well. We all know how difficult it is to get on with departments like AFD, SAFD, and FWFD. It is an ugly situation, but in the end, those that have the resilience will put up with anything until they are viewed as equals. It is unfortunate it has come to this, but hopefully this will bring the change that AFD needs to avoid this situation in the future.

  17. #867
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhorn2008 View Post
    For all we know, some of these cadets could have made it through with the normal circumstances, but that won't matter.
    Some who make it through will have done so through more difficult circumstances, such as non-minorities, if a consent decree issues a minority quota or gives a handicap to minority scores on an eligibility list. It would be impossible to view those individuals as less than equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by longhorn2008 View Post
    We all know how difficult it is to get on with departments like AFD, SAFD, and FWFD.
    Did you mean to leave out Dallas, and why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter56 View Post
    Some who make it through will have done so through more difficult circumstances, such as non-minorities, if a consent decree issues a minority quota or gives a handicap to minority scores on an eligibility list. It would be impossible to view those individuals as less than equal.


    h


    Did you mean to leave out Dallas, and why?


    he put LIKE, Like almost any department it is difficult to get on

  19. #869
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter56 View Post
    Some who make it through will have done so through more difficult circumstances, such as non-minorities, if a consent decree issues a minority quota or gives a handicap to minority scores on an eligibility list. It would be impossible to view those individuals as less than equal.



    Did you mean to leave out Dallas, and why?
    Those 3 and Waco FD are fire departments I have applied for and have gone through their hiring process. I am speaking from personal experience. I am pretty sure Dallas and Houston are very competitive as well.

  20. #870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter56 View Post
    Some who make it through will have done so through more difficult circumstances, such as non-minorities, if a consent decree issues a minority quota or gives a handicap to minority scores on an eligibility list. It would be impossible to view those individuals as less than equal.
    Scooter56, I also see the other side of this as well, but the DoJ found discrimination not only in 2013 process, but in the 2012 as well. If a minority quota or a "handicap", as you put it, is issued, it is to nullify whatever the DoJ found, not to give minorities an advantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by longhorn2008 View Post
    Scooter56, I also see the other side of this as well, but the DoJ found discrimination not only in 2013 process, but in the 2012 as well. If a minority quota or a "handicap", as you put it, is issued, it is to nullify whatever the DoJ found, not to give minorities an advantage.
    Then they would be viewed with the same respect as any other class.

  22. #872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter56 View Post
    No agreement yet. It will probably take a long time. As Fire49 said, these are the Feds. AFA are not involved because this is a lawsuit between the federal government and the City of Austin. But should any changes be made to their hiring structure in the course of a settlement of the lawsuit (known as a consent decree), AFA must be consulted because of Civil Service statutes and the terms of the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the union (AFA) and the City of Austin (AFD) that include the AFA in decision making about their hiring process as the AFA has a vested interest in the outcomes of hiring processes.

    The ongoing political dynamic is that the City wants control over the process to increase diversity through whatever means they can so if it can discredit the AFA, who had contributed to the design of hiring processes such as this one, with the result of a federal investigation calling it discriminatory, it will withhold evidence of the job relatedness and validity of the process which they paid over a million dollars for in order to gain political leverage to obtain such control over hiring processes in the future.

    The process is legal under federal law if there is evidence that the process was designed to measure job related, valid skills for the job. The reason you hire a vendor such as Morris & McDaniel is to conduct studies to find what skills are job related, how to measure them with a hiring process, conduct the hiring process, and--this is the key--to document the evidence as to the job relatedness and validity of the process, so that when the feds come knocking you can hand them the evidence and send them on their way. Clearly, the City has a different agenda as the vendor and AFA have not been invited to the table, and will not be, until absolutely required by legal due process described above. That will be very far down the road.

    Unfortunately, there are things out of everyone's control such as the political climate that are the real driving factors of this situation. Let's hope the Act of Council that's needed to approve an agreement between the City and the DOJ that would be forwarded to federal court for approval as a consent decree includes some provision that the 2013 process be allowed to resume with only minor, expedient changes. Council meets biweekly and not during the holidays.
    After some digging, I found https://www.facebook.com/AustinFireD...78542428879900 which attests that evidence of job relatedness was provided but just that the DOJ wasn't satisfied with it. Felt like I should post it to update my previous post.

  23. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter56 View Post
    Then they would be viewed with the same respect as any other class.
    You would think, but I doubt it. Aliciaaaaah's feedback was from a few AFD firefighters. It isn't a far stretch to think others would feel the same since they all got on under normal circumstances.

  24. #874
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    I guess it kind of depends how they change the process, which we're still waiting to hear about after three months. I've been in contact with their recruitment office, and they really have no information (or aren't willing to speculate which I understand). The only thing they've said is that it will take at least four months for an academy once they resume the process. Hard to believe that the SOI was six months ago.

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    My concern is the non-disclosure of the oral exam results. There has certainly been enough time to calculate and rank the scores, so why not release the results? I'd be curious to see where I stood before any potential "modifications" are applied.
    Last edited by William Bourbonstreet; 01-22-2014 at 09:33 AM.
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