Whats going on in Philly?!?!

[nameless]

http://statter911.com/2012/02/14/con...-about-safety/


Someone from PFD please tell me this is wrong. Have fire service leaders become so cowardly and out of touch with out job to punish firemen for legit injuries suffered while rescuing civilians? There has to be something more going on here.

[mrpita]

No, it's not wrong. Well, it's WRONG, but it's not inaccurate. Anyone who gets burned, or injured (especially hand or facial burns/cuts) is being persecuted. You will be guilty until found innocent. You will be detailed to our academy/safety office until the initial investigation is complete. After the initial investigation, you will be detailed to Fire Prevention (almost a desk job) until they decide what the outcome should be of the final investigation. You will be banned from working with your assigned company - period - until the end of the investigation. If (when) you are found in the wrong, you will recieve a disciplinary transfer (Shanghai'ed) and very likely 48 hours or more suspension.After the 2008-09 company closings and brownouts, FF injuries increased. The union kept touting this statistic in order to end brownouts/show cause to not close companies. The city wants to sweep them under the rug, so "officially" we are to turn in every injury. But obviously, doing so in practice exposes us to disciplinary treatment. Hence I expect the numbers to take a dip this year. In a survey done for our recent efficiency study (published last month), 82% of the department responded. When asked about injuries:

"Have you ever failed to report a minor injury?"

Answer Options	Percent Response
Once	9.0%
2 to 5 times	36.0%
6 to 10 times	12.0%
More than 10 times	11.0%
Never, I report every injury	31.0%

It should be noted - 33% of respondents identified themselves as managers or supervisors.

[snowball]

Fantastic. Let's fix a problem by making an example out of injury reporters, in turn the numbers will dip and city hall will get off our back. I have a feeling that no matter what you do, those companies are not coming back, fiscal emergency or not.

[mrpita]

Fantastic. Let's fix a problem by making an example out of injury reporters, in turn the numbers will dip and city hall will get off our back. I have a feeling that no matter what you do, those companies are not coming back, fiscal emergency or not.

Snowball, I'm not sure I'm reading your comment right. When you say "city hall will get off our back", I read that as you're saying the union is complicit with this BS, and the union is "making an example" of the injured - not true. It is {city hall/the FD administration} who are making examples of those who get injured. As for the second part, I agree nothing will change in that regard, at least not while this administration remains.

***

Anyway, another news station has picked up on the story:
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/...aving-lives%3F

I also think this "article" is better than the other.

[FWDbuff]

In coincidence with last night's Fox News broadcast of the travesties, it is being reported on Facebook that Car 2 (The Special Investigations Officer) is visiting firehouses today and questioning members about "unapproved internet" in the firehouses and also about their involvement with several Facebook Pages and other social media outlets which are broadcasting these problems and most likely triggered the News Reports by the Fox and CBS News Stations in Philly. Local 22 has sent out a warning for all station Desk Watches to follow all watch procedures to the letter of the SOP, to document in the watch log the arrival and departure of any PFD officials, and for NO ONE to speak to any officials if/when questioned about social media, internet in the firehouse, etc without a union rep present.

[GTRider245]

If I am interpreting the story correctly, the department is basically taking the stance that anyone who is injured to the hands or face MUST have not been wearing their PPE correctly. SO unless said piece of PPE was found to be worn correctly and failed, they are blaming the firefighters themselves.

Correct?

[mrpita]

If I am interpreting the story correctly, the department is basically taking the stance that anyone who is injured to the hands or face MUST have not been wearing their PPE correctly. SO unless said piece of PPE was found to be worn correctly and failed, they are blaming the firefighters themselves.

Correct?

Yes. If you have (for example) a burn to your neck, and there is no corresponding burn/damage to your hood, you are presumed not to have been wearing the hood, or at least not wearing it properly. This despite a clear warning in the hood itself that it cannot prevent all burns, and in fact you may be burned without any visible damage to the hood.

Regardless of the determination, you are punished by being kept from working with your guys until the investigation is over (which can take weeks).

Attached is the memo detailing steps to be taken against those who are injured or burned.

[RFDACM02]

Snowball, I'm not sure I'm reading your comment right.

For what it's worth, I take Snowballs comment to mean (and fully agree) it's the PFD Admin. They closed companies and used brownouts to stay in the fold with City Hall, then as injuries increased showing that closures and brownouts are hazardous, they decide to punish those firefighters they've endangered into not reporting injuries, thus not showing the true results of closures/brownouts. True mutts. I don't know how some people sleep at night.

[mrpita]

For what it's worth, I take Snowballs comment to mean (and fully agree) it's the PFD Admin. They closed companies and used brownouts to stay in the fold with City Hall, then as injuries increased showing that closures and brownouts are hazardous, they decide to punish those firefighters they've endangered into not reporting injuries, thus not showing the true results of closures/brownouts. True mutts. I don't know how some people sleep at night.

Thank you. I was tired when reading it, and I thought I was reading something uncharacteristic into Snowball's reply. your interpretation mkes much more sense to me.

Snowball, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[FireMedic049]

I guess it's time to start wearing 3 hoods and 2 pairs of gloves at fires.

[FWDbuff]

If I am interpreting the story correctly, the department is basically taking the stance that anyone who is injured to the hands or face MUST have not been wearing their PPE correctly. SO unless said piece of PPE was found to be worn correctly and failed, they are blaming the firefighters themselves.

Correct?

THIS JUST ON THE FOX 10:00 NEWS TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, both the Fire Commissioner Lloyd Ayres and the City's Managing Director Everett Gillison both stated on camera that (and this is a direct quite from Gillison) "that if they want to be firefighters and wear the uniform that so many people look up to, then they need to wear it correctly."

They are so pizzed off about all the publicity on the TV news and through social media; see references earlier today about PFD brass visiting firehouses.........

[dragonfyre]

In coincidence with last night's Fox News broadcast of the travesties, it is being reported on Facebook that Car 2 (The Special Investigations Officer) is visiting firehouses today and questioning members about "unapproved internet" in the firehouses and also about their involvement with several Facebook Pages and other social media outlets which are broadcasting these problems and most likely triggered the News Reports by the Fox and CBS News Stations in Philly. Local 22 has sent out a warning for all station Desk Watches to follow all watch procedures to the letter of the SOP, to document in the watch log the arrival and departure of any PFD officials, and for NO ONE to speak to any officials if/when questioned about social media, internet in the firehouse, etc without a union rep present.

Walt Hunter broke the story 2 nights before on Channel 3.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/vid...eing-punished/

[FWDbuff]

Walt Hunter broke the story 2 nights before on Channel 3.
http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/vid...eing-punished/

Yes, I more or less said that when I mentioned "The Fox and CBS news stories." Walt Hunter was specifically targeted for this news story by those wanting to bring this to the media because of his Volunteer Firefighting experience, as well as two other Philadelphia News Media persons who also have VFD experience. Walt's story apparently got chopped up big time by the editor which is apparent in it's lack of substance (not his fault.)

[Bones42]

The memo is from July 2011. It's just getting news notice now...in Feb?

[nameless]

This is disgusting. It seems the no spine, not a fireman scumbag sell out their own brothers as soon as they get bugle mutts are popping up in fire departments across the country, but this particular policy is especially abhorrent. Its hard to believe how these people are ruining the fire service and selling out good firemen that are only trying to do their job.

[FWDbuff]

This is disgusting. It seems the no spine, not a fireman scumbag sell out their own brothers as soon as they get bugle mutts are popping up in fire departments across the country, but this particular policy is especially abhorrent. Its hard to believe how these people are ruining the fire service and selling out good firemen that are only trying to do their job.

Want to see some sellouts? If you are on facebook, go to the FOX29 Philadelphia Facebook page, and find the story that was posted this morning, and read some of the replies- from several "2-20's" from slow volunteer departments to a so-called "Retired Batallion Chief from a major metro department" -you would be surprised who says "well if they had their gear on right they would not get burned at all."

The beginnings of a movement to petition the IAFF to move it's summer convention out of Philly (unless the PFD and the City change their tune) is now in the works.....Stay tuned, it will be an interesting summer for sure!!!!

[snowball]

Thank you. I was tired when reading it, and I thought I was reading something uncharacteristic into Snowball's reply. your interpretation mkes much more sense to me.

Snowball, I apologize for the misunderstanding.

No apology needed brother. Sorry for the late reply, I was busy being forced to act Captain to cover furlough vacancies so my dept doesn't have to hire overtime. All while the BC's can pick and choose when and how much OT they want, because we all know that Captain's aren't good enough to act up in their spot. Rant off....proceed.

[SkylinePCG]

I came across this story the other night with a load on, and the next morning I had the hazy, twilight zone-ish, "theres no way I really read that" kind of recollection of reading it.

That said, if a shanghaied member showed up to my firehouse under these circumstances, he'd be welcomed with open arms and treated like a king for the duration of his stay. Im sure the brothers in Philly are doing the right thing for those guys.

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

You can wear all of your PPE correctly and still get burn injuries... movement can open gaps between the hood and facepiece; reaching out can cause gaps between the gloves and the coat.

It looks like the chiefs of Philly and DC are in a competiton to see who can demoralize their departments faster...

[snowball]

You can wear all of your PPE correctly and still get burn injuries... movement can open gaps between the hood and facepiece; reaching out can cause gaps between the gloves and the coat.

It looks like the chiefs of Philly and DC are in a competiton to see who can demoralize their departments faster...

Right, because we all know that departments run better and more efficiently when the line hates and fears the staff.

What a couple of buffoons.