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Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #26
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    Well, which is it? Is the allegation correct that the not correct information is, in fact, not correct or is it not correct that the not correct information is, in fact, correct, making it correct, in turn, making the not correct statement, not correct?

    Who is really bored here?

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    Thank you all for a very entertaining thread. Definitely in the top 10 here....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Damn -I thought I was wound tight - that guy makes me look like Jimmy Buffet.
    ?

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    In order to prevent any further panty-related trauma, I found the following in about five minutes of internet searching. This is the official bid tabulation from the NYC Office of Citywide Purchasing.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloa...cp/1200206.pdf

    Phil Goldsmith
    Hanover, PA

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgoldsmith View Post
    In order to prevent any further panty-related trauma, I found the following in about five minutes of internet searching. This is the official bid tabulation from the NYC Office of Citywide Purchasing.

    http://www.nyc.gov/html/dcas/downloa...cp/1200206.pdf

    Phil Goldsmith
    Hanover, PA
    OUCH!!! My bet is Pumper Guy doesn't come back on here and have his serving of crow.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    What is it lately with the parade of dick heads that seem to only come here trying to start a big bruhaha over nothing?

    I fail to see what FWDbuff said that would cause Pumper Guy to go all balistic like he did. So once again it seems we have a troll who is here for nothing other than arguments. Now I enjoy a heated debate as much as the next guy, but I usually have a basis for the debate, not some idiotic drivel over nothing.
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    I assume that the FDNY is requiring a stainless steel cab for the new pumpers as they did for the new Rescue trucks and the RM Aerials that were recently purchased from Ferrara. If this is the case, does KME offer a S/S cab (at least 3CR12) now or are they going to build one for the FDNY bid like Ferrara did? Anybody know?

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    Ok smart guys who was the fourth interested manufacturer who expressed serious interest but ended up backing off?

    And whatever drugs they are doing in Wisconsin these days must be pretty damn good, $827k for a pumper? Really guys? Another nail in the coffin of an old time apparatus builder. The FFA rigs leave ALOT to be desired, but it is hard to justify that much of a price disparity.
    As for KME stainless cabs, they have made them for many years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jfTL41 View Post
    Ok smart guys who was the fourth interested manufacturer who expressed serious interest but ended up backing off?
    Well... we all can't have your inside info.

    I rely on knowledgeable sources like yourself for information.

    You're right about the price though. 200k between the low and high bids for a pumper is quite steep... 5 year warranty or not.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Default FDNY BId Results

    Geez you guys can't we all just get along and report the facts...

    Thanks to the poster who provided the official opening results but as they say "it ain't over till it's over" AND I too agree $200K per truck difference is absurb and WTF how can someone be that LOW or that HIGH for a FDNY Pumper...

    Regardless of the FDNY Warranty Costs a nearly $20M difference between LOW and HIGH bid is quite striking and that KME's nearly $10M lower than Ferrara and Ferrara's $10M below Seagrave makes me ask WTF is going on in this business.

    I've been in the industry 30 years and I've never seen such a wide range of bid pricing lately and it's not "illegal" to lose money in this business and the FDNY need to ensure that they purchase apparatus that will stand up to their severe operating conditions.

    But as they too "it ain't over till it's over" and we'll see who gets the award...

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    Maybe FDNY spec demands are too rough on manufacturers to really want to win?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aerialguy11 View Post
    Geez you guys can't we all just get along and report the facts...

    Thanks to the poster who provided the official opening results but as they say "it ain't over till it's over" AND I too agree $200K per truck difference is absurb and WTF how can someone be that LOW or that HIGH for a FDNY Pumper...

    Regardless of the FDNY Warranty Costs a nearly $20M difference between LOW and HIGH bid is quite striking and that KME's nearly $10M lower than Ferrara and Ferrara's $10M below Seagrave makes me ask WTF is going on in this business.

    I've been in the industry 30 years and I've never seen such a wide range of bid pricing lately and it's not "illegal" to lose money in this business and the FDNY need to ensure that they purchase apparatus that will stand up to their severe operating conditions.

    But as they too "it ain't over till it's over" and we'll see who gets the award...
    Just a guess but, the disparity could be in the SWAG used to estimate the cost of a five year warranty. Where Seagrave has the experience with backing it up for many years and the others do not. Having been involved with pricing warranties for base units and extended warranty options I know it is mostly grabbing at air.

    Another factor to consider is that pricing can be held over and even reduced when a company's backlog is disappearing. The shorter the backlog, the more desperate the company.

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    Gotta love this line item:

    Training
    KME $3,000.00
    Ferrara $5,000.00
    Seagrave $165,500.00

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    KME would sell their Mothers to get a large truck order with the FDNY!
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Would be very interesting to see what happens to say the least. I also heard that FDNY tagged on more rear mounts to their current order, making the entire the fleet of rear mounts will be Ferrara's.

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    Whille NOT up Yardo's rear ...................he has NEVER lied to us before..............thats all..............thumbs down to the Pumper Guy, WTF !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
    Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    Kme had a large 65 fire apparatus order from LA county a few years back, and they just delivered 20 pumpers to Philly! And they have a contract to rebuild a Mack Aerialscope for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LastOut View Post
    Would be very interesting to see what happens to say the least. I also heard that FDNY tagged on more rear mounts to their current order, making the entire the fleet of rear mounts will be Ferrara's.
    They should still be building FDNY aerials when our truck committee heads to the Ferrera plant in a month or so for a pre-build conference on our new engine. They should be interesting to see.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Maybe you have a reason with regards your statement about KME. KME has all types of frontline apparatus in major cities throughout the country. Just recently they accquired a major order for the city of Philadelphia. They have been in business for many years and had problems that were resolved like most manufactures. So give them a break. Let wait and see what happens in three years.

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    The only problem I see if Kme gets the contract, can they handle the 5 year service agreement and where would the FDNY apparatus be sent for the work ?

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    My feeling is that Seagrave has an advantage in this process and they are trying to take advantage of it... Hence, their high bid.

    I am sure that FDNY would like to remain with Seagrave for training and maintenance purposes. Plus, Seagrave has a ton of experience with FDNY and knows exactly how much to pad their bid to make a handsome profit while covering any costs they could expect with the warranty.

    Yes, I know Ferrara does have some experience with FDNY but not nearly as much so as Seagrave. KME is the one that is truly taking a stab in the dark here. I'm not surprised that the other two companies that currently serve FDNY came in higher.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    I know that the FDNY requires a stainless steel cab and body for their fire apparatus (engs, trucks, rescues). Seagrave uses the lower carbon/chromium 3CR12 S/S material for the cab and body. I know the Ferrara Ultra cab that was developed for the FDNY production is made of 3CR12. What S/S did Ferrara use for the bodies on the FDNY trucks and rescues, 3CR12 or 304? Just curious..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    The only problem I see if Kme gets the contract, can they handle the 5 year service agreement and where would the FDNY apparatus be sent for the work ?

    My guess would be one of their larger dealers from your State.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    My guess would be one of their larger dealers from your State.
    The factory is only about 2hrs from the City. If that.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    True, but that could become a real nightmare of a trip! Seems their northern Jersey Dealer might make the most sense, already have a large facility and staff. But who knows maybe factory direct makes more sense for KME.
    Last edited by TFD-PIPEMAN; 03-05-2012 at 10:12 PM.

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