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Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    True, but that could become a real nightmare of a trip! Seems their northern Jersey Dealer might make the most sense, already have a large facility and staff. But who knows maybe factory direct makes more sense for KME.
    I think that you are correct about going the factory direct route with service, the last pumper order for FDNY from Seagrave was factory direct with all the apparatus getting service done at there East Brunswick, N.J. location, this maybe part of the FDNY specs?

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    Wow that's the funniest attack on FWD buff since the LT something from the suburbs of Chicago, was poking him.

    I am also surprised at the wide space between the bidders, since the whole industry is short on work. Seagrave seems to have bumped the price on the new bid about 300K from the original FDNY tilt cab bid......interesting.

    The management at Seagrave has been "strangling" the company since they took over a couple of years ago......many good people have been let go. Seagrave while building a great product over the last twenty years or so,
    has really (as a company) been struggling since the 1970's. Some of the sour taste FD's had with snapping axles and rust issues so bad, (as the saying goes "if you listened close you could actually hear it rusting") still remain.
    Management always blames the union and others blame engineering. Now everything revolves around $$ and the bean counter at the helm knows nothing about the fire service and what he has learned, he doesn't seem to
    care about. To be out bid by that much, is actually pretty silly.

    Like I said in the earlier posts the previous owner was very conservative, taking baby steps to build the company. He took steps to vastly improve the product, after the company endured chapter 11 bankruptcy, in or around 1980.

    I will say if Seagrave does not get this order for FDNY, then "the last one out shut off the lights" it just might be the final nail in the coffin for this enduring company. They only have themselves to blame.

    The "little birdie" word is KME bid a split tilt stainless cab.

    Every manufacturer seems like they are scrambling for business and it isn't going to change any time soon.

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    I saw on facebook today that FDNY awarded Ferrara a $13 million contract for 13 more ladders. That's a million dollars per truck! How is this price justifiable? I sure hope Ferrara doesn't get the pumper contract! The TCM cabs Ferrara uses are garbage just like all the other cabs TCM produces. I think Ferrara's assembly process is shoty too. Overspray is common on their trucks. The only thing good about Ferrara is the Smeal ladder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMastr28 View Post
    I saw on facebook today that FDNY awarded Ferrara a $13 million contract for 13 more ladders. That's a million dollars per truck! How is this price justifiable?
    How is it that out of line? $1 million for a custom heavy duty 100' rearmount with a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty seems reasonable to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    How is it that out of line? $1 million for a custom heavy duty 100' rearmount with a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty seems reasonable to me.
    Agreed, people seem to forget that the 5 year warranty drives the price up on each rig...significantly.
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    And typically with the FDNY bid specs there is a whole host of spare parts included in the spec. The actual truck may only cost around $800K but then there are spare doors, axles, tires and rims, windshields, etc. And then there is that pesky warranty.....

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    Thumbs down Cabs?

    Doesn't Ferrara build any of there own stuff, it seems like the only thing they make is there own bodies!But they are getting contracts from large fire departments all over the country and making $money

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    Yes, they do: Ferrara Custom Cabs.

    The Ember and Intruder2 are re-badged HME cabs, but the Ultra, Inferno, and Igniter are FFA cabs.
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    Do they produce the cabs or only build the frame rails, chassis, etc. ?

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    Ferrara buys their cabs from TCM out of Cincinnati. Ferrara then paints it, wires it, etc. While I like the layout of the Ferrara cabs, I think they lack quality. TCM no longer supplies Spartan or HME with cabs for a reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMastr28 View Post
    Ferrara buys their cabs from TCM out of Cincinnati. Ferrara then paints it, wires it, etc. While I like the layout of the Ferrara cabs, I think they lack quality. TCM no longer supplies Spartan or HME with cabs for a reason.
    Ok, so its clear to me........Ferrara does NOT build their own cabs? They only trim cabs built by TCM for the Ultra, Inferno and Igniter? But the other two are rebadged HME's, correct?

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    I think the only exception could be what they're building for FDNY, which I assume are stainless. I think the Ember and Intruder are the HME's with Ferrara badges (and grilles in the case of the Ember).

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    The Ultra cab is also made by TCM. Ferrara does not make any of their cabs.

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    Since we are on who makes cabs. Let’s see with a list of who makes their own or has them subbed out. If it is different then what I have post it and Ill update this list.

    America LaFrance:
    Eagle - Them self
    Metropolitan - Them self

    KME:
    Predator - Them self
    Panther - Them self
    Severe Service - Them Self

    Seagrave:
    Marauder II - Them self

    Spartan:
    Force - Marion
    Metro Star - Marion
    Metro Star RT - Marion
    Gladiator - Marion

    HME:
    1871-vc - Marion
    1871-W - Marion
    1871-SFO - Marion
    Spectr - Marion

    Rosenbauer(Their own not re-badge Spartan):
    Commander - Them self or Marion

    Ferrara:
    Inferno - TCM
    Igniter - TCM
    Ultra - TCM
    Ember(HME) - TCM or Marion
    Intruder(HME) TCM or Marion

    E-One:
    Cyclone II - Them self
    Typhoon - Them self
    Quest - Them self

    Sutphen:
    Ambassador - Them self
    Monarch - Them self

    Pierce:
    Dash CF - Them self
    Quantum - Them self
    Velocity - Them self
    Impel - Them self
    Arrow XT - Them self
    Saber - Them self
    Last edited by TOWER412; 03-13-2012 at 11:07 AM.

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    I was also under the impression that E-One built all of their own cabs, until I saw this photo, which looks suspiciously like an E-One Typhoon to me.

    As far as I know, all of Sutphen's cabs are TCM.
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    While at the E-One factory, I saw them building their own cabs for the 3 lines mentioned above. I have pictures too....but won't post them as I don't want to show super secrets....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    TOWER412: I was told at Rosenbauer's recent event at the Texas Motor Speedway that Marion did build the cab shell for their new Commander cab.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I was also under the impression that E-One built all of their own cabs, until I saw this photo, which looks suspiciously like an E-One Typhoon to me.

    As far as I know, all of Sutphen's cabs are TCM.
    Saw the same pic. I believe you're right... Looks exactly like a Typhoon.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

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    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
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    Box 187-

    All of Sutphen's cabs are made at their Hilliard facility. It has been several years since TCM made them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    TOWER412: I was told at Rosenbauer's recent event at the Texas Motor Speedway that Marion did build the cab shell for their new Commander cab.
    That is correct

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    Quote Originally Posted by sven73 View Post
    Box 187-

    All of Sutphen's cabs are made at their Hilliard facility. It has been several years since TCM made them.
    Very good, thanks for the correction.
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    [QUOTE=BoxAlarm187;1321710]I was also under the impression that E-One built all of their own cabs, until I saw this photo, which looks suspiciously like an E-One Typhoon to me.

    When E-One goofed by discontinuing all of their cab styles in 1996 when they revamped to the Cyclone II, this left them without an entry level/mid-range custom. The "American Eagle" custom quickly appeared and hung around until 2000. Aesthetically, it was the same cab shell as the previous Cyclone/Protector TC. I never did confirm, but I believe that E-One had already pulled that design from their line, so they had TCM build it for them, just to get a cheap custom back out there.

    TCM did build the original Sutphen Shield design, but it now has the same cab shell as the high end Monarch, which are both built in-house.

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    my rig was in service for a solid 15 hours before we lost the brakes, a whole two and a half days before the brake line (that they ran over the top of the telma retarder) MELTED Away... Turning on the AC activates the warning lights... Thats the SHORT list... going to be a long haul...

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    I think the only exception could be what they're building for FDNY, which I assume are stainless. I think the Ember and Intruder are the HME's with Ferrara badges (and grilles in the case of the Ember).

    Going to be in Indy Rob?
    Thanks for the info guys. I'm learning a lot on here, but of course I usually do.

    Yes Joel, I will be there. See you then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    I think the only exception could be what they're building for FDNY, which I assume are stainless. I think the Ember and Intruder are the HME's with Ferrara badges (and grilles in the case of the Ember).

    Going to be in Indy Rob?
    Thanks for the info guys. I'm learning a lot on here, but of course I usually do.

    Yes Joel, I will be there. See you then?

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