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Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #41
    Forum Member Weruj1's Avatar
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    Whille NOT up Yardo's rear ...................he has NEVER lied to us before..............thats all..............thumbs down to the Pumper Guy, WTF !
    IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT !
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    I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?
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    http://www.firehouse.com/forums/show...60#post1137060post 115


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    Kme had a large 65 fire apparatus order from LA county a few years back, and they just delivered 20 pumpers to Philly! And they have a contract to rebuild a Mack Aerialscope for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LastOut View Post
    Would be very interesting to see what happens to say the least. I also heard that FDNY tagged on more rear mounts to their current order, making the entire the fleet of rear mounts will be Ferrara's.
    They should still be building FDNY aerials when our truck committee heads to the Ferrera plant in a month or so for a pre-build conference on our new engine. They should be interesting to see.
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    Maybe you have a reason with regards your statement about KME. KME has all types of frontline apparatus in major cities throughout the country. Just recently they accquired a major order for the city of Philadelphia. They have been in business for many years and had problems that were resolved like most manufactures. So give them a break. Let wait and see what happens in three years.

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    The only problem I see if Kme gets the contract, can they handle the 5 year service agreement and where would the FDNY apparatus be sent for the work ?

  6. #46
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    My feeling is that Seagrave has an advantage in this process and they are trying to take advantage of it... Hence, their high bid.

    I am sure that FDNY would like to remain with Seagrave for training and maintenance purposes. Plus, Seagrave has a ton of experience with FDNY and knows exactly how much to pad their bid to make a handsome profit while covering any costs they could expect with the warranty.

    Yes, I know Ferrara does have some experience with FDNY but not nearly as much so as Seagrave. KME is the one that is truly taking a stab in the dark here. I'm not surprised that the other two companies that currently serve FDNY came in higher.
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    I know that the FDNY requires a stainless steel cab and body for their fire apparatus (engs, trucks, rescues). Seagrave uses the lower carbon/chromium 3CR12 S/S material for the cab and body. I know the Ferrara Ultra cab that was developed for the FDNY production is made of 3CR12. What S/S did Ferrara use for the bodies on the FDNY trucks and rescues, 3CR12 or 304? Just curious..........

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    The only problem I see if Kme gets the contract, can they handle the 5 year service agreement and where would the FDNY apparatus be sent for the work ?

    My guess would be one of their larger dealers from your State.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    My guess would be one of their larger dealers from your State.
    The factory is only about 2hrs from the City. If that.
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    True, but that could become a real nightmare of a trip! Seems their northern Jersey Dealer might make the most sense, already have a large facility and staff. But who knows maybe factory direct makes more sense for KME.
    Last edited by TFD-PIPEMAN; 03-05-2012 at 10:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    True, but that could become a real nightmare of a trip! Seems their northern Jersey Dealer might make the most sense, already have a large facility and staff. But who knows maybe factory direct makes more sense for KME.
    I think that you are correct about going the factory direct route with service, the last pumper order for FDNY from Seagrave was factory direct with all the apparatus getting service done at there East Brunswick, N.J. location, this maybe part of the FDNY specs?

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    Wow that's the funniest attack on FWD buff since the LT something from the suburbs of Chicago, was poking him.

    I am also surprised at the wide space between the bidders, since the whole industry is short on work. Seagrave seems to have bumped the price on the new bid about 300K from the original FDNY tilt cab bid......interesting.

    The management at Seagrave has been "strangling" the company since they took over a couple of years ago......many good people have been let go. Seagrave while building a great product over the last twenty years or so,
    has really (as a company) been struggling since the 1970's. Some of the sour taste FD's had with snapping axles and rust issues so bad, (as the saying goes "if you listened close you could actually hear it rusting") still remain.
    Management always blames the union and others blame engineering. Now everything revolves around $$ and the bean counter at the helm knows nothing about the fire service and what he has learned, he doesn't seem to
    care about. To be out bid by that much, is actually pretty silly.

    Like I said in the earlier posts the previous owner was very conservative, taking baby steps to build the company. He took steps to vastly improve the product, after the company endured chapter 11 bankruptcy, in or around 1980.

    I will say if Seagrave does not get this order for FDNY, then "the last one out shut off the lights" it just might be the final nail in the coffin for this enduring company. They only have themselves to blame.

    The "little birdie" word is KME bid a split tilt stainless cab.

    Every manufacturer seems like they are scrambling for business and it isn't going to change any time soon.

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    I saw on facebook today that FDNY awarded Ferrara a $13 million contract for 13 more ladders. That's a million dollars per truck! How is this price justifiable? I sure hope Ferrara doesn't get the pumper contract! The TCM cabs Ferrara uses are garbage just like all the other cabs TCM produces. I think Ferrara's assembly process is shoty too. Overspray is common on their trucks. The only thing good about Ferrara is the Smeal ladder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZMastr28 View Post
    I saw on facebook today that FDNY awarded Ferrara a $13 million contract for 13 more ladders. That's a million dollars per truck! How is this price justifiable?
    How is it that out of line? $1 million for a custom heavy duty 100' rearmount with a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty seems reasonable to me.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    How is it that out of line? $1 million for a custom heavy duty 100' rearmount with a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty seems reasonable to me.
    Agreed, people seem to forget that the 5 year warranty drives the price up on each rig...significantly.
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  16. #56
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    And typically with the FDNY bid specs there is a whole host of spare parts included in the spec. The actual truck may only cost around $800K but then there are spare doors, axles, tires and rims, windshields, etc. And then there is that pesky warranty.....

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    Thumbs down Cabs?

    Doesn't Ferrara build any of there own stuff, it seems like the only thing they make is there own bodies!But they are getting contracts from large fire departments all over the country and making $money

  18. #58
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    Yes, they do: Ferrara Custom Cabs.

    The Ember and Intruder2 are re-badged HME cabs, but the Ultra, Inferno, and Igniter are FFA cabs.
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  19. #59
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    Do they produce the cabs or only build the frame rails, chassis, etc. ?

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    Ferrara buys their cabs from TCM out of Cincinnati. Ferrara then paints it, wires it, etc. While I like the layout of the Ferrara cabs, I think they lack quality. TCM no longer supplies Spartan or HME with cabs for a reason.

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