The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

[FWDbuff]

Any word yet on who got the award to build 90 engines for the F.D.N.Y., I have seen news that Ferrara, will build (13) more 100ft aerials at a cost of 13 million dollars. It looks like Seagrave needs to get there truck pricing in line with all the other builders. If the new Ferrara chassis aerials fall a part in the next few years it maybe the last contract for them from FDNY ?

The 13 are an add-on to the original rearmount order (I dont know how much legalese they have to do for an add-on, but I do understand it is somewhat easier) for which in the end, Seagrave's bid was cheaper than FFA's. However, they had somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 (yes, twenty) exceptions to the bid spec, mostly regarding warranty issues, which is why FFA was awarded the contract.

[sven73]

Does Ferrara handle FDNY direct or through one of their dealers close to the city?

[RFDACM02]

Did the little birdie say anything about KME being awarded a contract for 90 pumpers? Seems to be the word in another forum close the city.

Added Note: It's been a while, I'd forgotten that was the original word, not sure why it's coming back around unless an official release is due tomorrow?

[nyckftbl]

I have ZERO affliation with the FDNY or any manufacturer for your information. However now I will follow this matter to see who wins the bid and what the true facts are. Then I will come back here and see what all the "know it alls" have to say.

Curious if this D-bag will return.

[FWDbuff]

Did the little birdie say anything about KME being awarded a contract for 90 pumpers? Seems to be the word in another forum close the city.

Added Note: It's been a while, I'd forgotten that was the original word, not sure why it's coming back around unless an official release is due tomorrow?

Little birdy did in fact indicate that the bid had not officially been awarded as of 1400 yesterday afternoon, however birdy indicated that KME was the lowest bidder that met all of the specs with no exceptions, therefore you have seen the writing on the wall. Birdy also said the award would come literally at any moment.

[mtg55]

Curious if this D-bag will return.

Well lets all hope not....Yardo, you always drag out the freaks and weirdo's!!!

[FWDbuff]

Well lets all hope not....Yardo, you always drag out the freaks and weirdo's!!!

It's a gift.

[CaptOldTimer]

Little birdy did in fact indicate that the bid had not officially been awarded as of 1400 yesterday afternoon, however birdy indicated that KME was the lowest bidder that met all of the specs with no exceptions, therefore you have seen the writing on the wall. Birdy also said the award would come literally at any moment.

Changing your tune now, eh?


When it comes out from the apparatus maker, then I will believe it.
If what you say it true and kme gets it, this may be the end of them. It killed AmlaFrance.

Look at Seagrave they are barely holding their head above water.

[Woodbridge]

American lafrance was killed by there current owner, or stock holders ! Seagrave is not dead and will live without a pumper bid from New York City. Will Ferrara, die off after the contract ends for the 100ft aerials they are building for the FDNY ?

[ffp20]

No, alf died when they left elmira, never to come back from its former glory largely due to the ny issues. Seagrave? hurt dealing with issues with ny. Ward 79? same. Ward lafrance after the orders from the 60s? same. Mack? the main product lines and size of company kept them going but decided the fire market, even with fdny was not enough to keep their machine fed (of course emissions regulation changes didnt help). NY is a tough one for any manufacturer to handle? The smaller or regional manufacturers? Saulsbury? only did the rescues and specialty vehicles. While typically better able to offer the customization required, they cant handle the warranty headaches and know better than to get involved. The "prestige" of being in NY often aint worth the headaches being there causes them.

[IronsMan53]

American lafrance was killed by there current owner, or stock holders ! Seagrave is not dead and will live without a pumper bid from New York City. Will Ferrara, die off after the contract ends for the 100ft aerials they are building for the FDNY ?

The real ALF was killed in the 80's. I'm sure their FDNY contract hurried the death spiral along if it did not directly cause it.

[Fyrtrks]

No, alf died when they left elmira, never to come back from its former glory largely due to the ny issues. Seagrave? hurt dealing with issues with ny. Ward 79? same. Ward lafrance after the orders from the 60s? same. Mack? the main product lines and size of company kept them going but decided the fire market, even with fdny was not enough to keep their machine fed (of course emissions regulation changes didnt help). NY is a tough one for any manufacturer to handle? The smaller or regional manufacturers? Saulsbury? only did the rescues and specialty vehicles. While typically better able to offer the customization required, they cant handle the warranty headaches and know better than to get involved. The "prestige" of being in NY often aint worth the headaches being there causes them.

Yeah what he said!

The warranty used to read and I am guessing still does read excluding normal wear items: light bulbs, hoses, tires and the like. FDNY would send Saulsbury a warranty claim for a lightbar not working. The field service rep (me) would stop by Rescue # (whatever number) to check the lightbar. The lightbar would be working fine, the problem would be the bulbs were bad or had vibrated out. The problem would be repaired and it would be a billable item. The difficulty was either the bill was just swallowed by Saulsbury or FDNY never paid the bill. I am sure the latter was more of the case.

Just like any apparatus KME you can swear at or swear by them. I lost a bid to them and it still stings not because the salseman was or is shady, but because the customer wasn't honest with me on their budget and with our dealings.

I think KME will loose their shirts on warranty.

[Woodbridge]

I have seen news that Seagrave Fire Apparatus has won the bid award for "squads" anyone know how many are to be built, and what was the price tag?

[FWDbuff]

I have seen news that Seagrave Fire Apparatus has won the bid award for "squads" anyone know how many are to be built, and what was the price tag?

Five units, dont know the price. They also got some tillers and more scopes I believe, too.

[Skysthelimit]

Five units, dont know the price. They also got some tillers and more scopes I believe, too.

Where might have you seen this information? Link maybe.

[Bones42]

...but because the customer wasn't honest with me on their budget...

Honest question...but why and/or how would knowing the budget affect your best price? If you find it's a low budget...do you give a better price? And then up the price on someone with a higher budget?

Cuz that's what your statement is saying to me...

[CaptOldTimer]

The real ALF was killed in the 80's. I'm sure their FDNY contract hurried the death spiral along if it did not directly cause it.

I saw on another forum that American LaFrance was being evicted from their Summerville, SC plant. Looks like old times for them.

[FireMedic049]

Honest question...but why and/or how would knowing the budget affect your best price? If you find it's a low budget...do you give a better price? And then up the price on someone with a higher budget?

Cuz that's what your statement is saying to me...

I took it differently. It kind of sounded like maybe the department was working with a limited budget, but didn't make that clear to him, possibly in attempt to manipulate the bidding process. As a result, I could see his manufacturer doing something like possibly bidding a "premium" chassis rather than a more budget friendly version and/or using high quality (more expensive) components rather than using less expensive options and thereby coming in high and "over budget". The result of which is losing the job and the buyer getting their "preferred" builder.

[Woodbridge]

Anytime I have talked to a fire apparatus sales rep about purchasing a truck. he would ask me what kind of budget do you have to work with .Then they offer such & such type of chassis cab, motor, body, pump, etc. to match your capital budget! They are not going to bid $ 500,000 on a truck when your departments budget is only $ 400,000.

[Bones42]

Interesting. We tend to send out specs for what options we want, what features, etc. We get some initial prices from the interested manufacturers and then we go to the Town for a budget to work with. Then we meet with manufacturers to see what they can actually offer and come up with a final set of specs. They aren't written by manufacturers.