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We the fire company write the specs,they the builder, offer a chassis model that will fit your budget when you ask for a ballpark price or estimate on the cost of a apparatus.our budget as a fire district is set by the board of commissioners and then voted on by the public at the annual fire election.The purchase of fire apparatus must be approved by the voters if capital money is to be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones42
I agree pumper guy,too much guessing and speculation without backup information. Kme being low bidder does not mean they will get the order. I have heard many rumors about this order,but i am not in a hurry to be the ''1st one'' to tell what i know.alot of peoples lives and jobs depend on the facts. This isn't a game,its the real world
Oh, good lord, here we go again.
How are people's lives depending on who gets awarded the bid?
So if Seagrave Fire Apparatus does'nt get the FDNY pumper contract they will close there doors and never build another fire truck again and all of there employees will be on the unemployment line and asking for food stamps?" I don't think so" they will stay a float just like Ferrara, & Kme !
Any updated news from The Little Birdy ?
If 124's guys dont get the order, the factory will explode violently at the speed of light, and all of the employees and their families will die of hunger as they panhandle on the streets begging for scraps of food.Quote:
Originally Posted by sven73
" No news is good news" for the families that are still eating ! The Little Birdy must have gotten eaten by the kitty ! And can not report any information from the FDNY.Quote:
Originally Posted by FWDbuff
Hey Guys, I think we are a bit flippant about how important the FDNY order is for Seagrave. The company is on life support right now, with many workers let go (told they won't be hired back) and more and more "out sourcing" going on to poke the one's that remain. How does it go, it's a recession if your neighbor is out of work and a depression if you are out of work! It is apparent the management still wants to price their product so high, that it has brought their production down to all time lows. While Seagrave has been a high priced for years now, the pricing right now is so out of whack, the management must be smoking some strange weed to think they will get many sales. To do the rough math, 22 million high bid for the FDNY pumpers is not good business and FDNY should just turn and walk away from the "poke job" price thrown at them.....I feel bad for those who have no control over what the management has chosen to do to that great company. Moving on and securing a new job is no easy task in this economy. Will Seagrave go under? It's up to the investment club that holds the purse strings.....a sobering thought indeed, especially for those who need the employment!
The Seagrave Fire Apparatus, LLC buys there apparatus components from the same companies as the other builders in the fire service. The only reason for them to charge a much higher price for there trucks is if they are paying union wages to there employees and the other builders don't, which would justify a part of the reason for such a higher cost in purchasing a apparatus from them. Many smaller Vol fire departments can no longer afford to go with Seagrave and go for the most truck for the buck !
And another reason for a higher price can be with the quality of the building process. Higher standards and attention to detail often equate to higher prices.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodbridge
Yes, Seagrave pricing can be a bit high. My department purchased a Seagrave engine a couple years ago, the quality of this engine vs the one that it replaced is far superior, however given what we got (much of the spec was derived from the DCFD engine spec) compared to what we paid for it, I think we overpaid for it when compared to how much "more truck" some other departments have gotten in that same price range (including other Seagrave units).Quote:
Originally Posted by SEMPERFI3
Regardless, while the price difference in the FDNY engine bids is large, I don't think you can necessarily draw a concrete conclusion that their pricing is "out of whack" when you consider the entire picture of this particular picture. The true "wild card" in these bids is the FDNY warranty requirements.
Seagrave has been almost exclusively building their engines for the past 20 years and dealing with the warranty requirements along the way. This experience should be able to provide them with sufficient information upon which to "price" the warranty coverage.
Ferrara, prior to the current rear-mount order, has only build a couple of engines and some SOC units. This experience would also give them some insight into the "pricing" of the warranty.
KME, to the best of my knowledge has not build anything for FDNY in at least the last 20 years. This lack of experience with FDNY's warranty requirements would likely put them at a disadvantage comparatively.
So, if you look at the bids from this perspective, it's really not much of a reach to say that KME is underestimating the cost of the warranty work and has thus "under-priced" their bid plus there's the possibility of "discounting" in order to secure the contract, that Ferrara as a result of their prior FDNY work is better estimating the cost of the warranty, but may still have "under-priced" their bid and that Seagrave is that much higher because they are "closest to the mark" on the cost of the warranty.
"Under-pricing" can be just as bad of, if not a worse, business practice as "over-pricing".
FM49, very valid points.
Then again...it could be that Seagrave is just over priced. :cool:
In our few dealings with them...that's been what we have experienced.
a few departments here in central jersey that ran Seagrave apparatus, are now going to order Pierce trucks because of the higher bid from Seagrave.Are there workers more skilled than any other fire apparatus builder, I do not think so, it all comes down to the managment of the company wanting to make a larger profit on there product!
Has their been any word on if the contract has been awarded?
NEWS: Little Birdy asked the magic 8-ball "What is happening with the pumpers" and gave it a shake this morning. Magic 8-ball says "nothing has been awarded yet." Little Birdy then said "Why so long, whats going on?" and shook it again. Magic 8-ball says "I dont know but such a long wait is indeed unusual."
News should be released in about 45 days on the bid award ! I also heard that there maybe a re-bid ?
Birdy had nothing to say other than what was posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodbridge
That would lead one to believe theres no desire for awarding to kme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodbridge
Maybe KME, is building a Demo split-tilt stainless steel cab & chassis for the big shots over at the FDNY shops before they award a contract ?
Perhaps its just the fact that KME is a first time bidder and maybe soon a contractor and I'm sure there is a ton of documentation and soforth with the Fire Department and procurement department. A re-bid this late into it??? I can't see it,then again who knows? We shall see, as for the split tilt, I believe that KME built some already for Elgin, IL. I'll have to do some checking to confirm.