Why register? ...To Enhance Your Experience
+ Reply to Thread
Page 6 of 16 FirstFirst ... 3456789 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 305
Like Tree29Likes

Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #101
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Interesting. We tend to send out specs for what options we want, what features, etc. We get some initial prices from the interested manufacturers and then we go to the Town for a budget to work with. Then we meet with manufacturers to see what they can actually offer and come up with a final set of specs. They aren't written by manufacturers.
    We the fire company write the specs,they the builder, offer a chassis model that will fit your budget when you ask for a ballpark price or estimate on the cost of a apparatus.our budget as a fire district is set by the board of commissioners and then voted on by the public at the annual fire election.The purchase of fire apparatus must be approved by the voters if capital money is to be used.
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 05-01-2012 at 08:15 PM.


  2. #102
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    10

    Default

    I agree pumper guy,too much guessing and speculation without backup information. Kme being low bidder does not mean they will get the order. I have heard many rumors about this order,but i am not in a hurry to be the ''1st one'' to tell what i know.alot of peoples lives and jobs depend on the facts. This isn't a game,its the real world

  3. #103
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Easton,Pa
    Posts
    368

    Default

    Oh, good lord, here we go again.

    How are people's lives depending on who gets awarded the bid?
    Last edited by sven73; 05-09-2012 at 05:57 PM.

  4. #104
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    So if Seagrave Fire Apparatus does'nt get the FDNY pumper contract they will close there doors and never build another fire truck again and all of there employees will be on the unemployment line and asking for food stamps?" I don't think so" they will stay a float just like Ferrara, & Kme !

  5. #105
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Any updated news from The Little Birdy ?

  6. #106
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sven73 View Post
    Oh, good lord, here we go again.

    How are people's lives depending on who gets awarded the bid?
    If 124's guys dont get the order, the factory will explode violently at the speed of light, and all of the employees and their families will die of hunger as they panhandle on the streets begging for scraps of food.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  7. #107
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    If 124's guys dont get the order, the factory will explode violently at the speed of light, and all of the employees and their families will die of hunger as they panhandle on the streets begging for scraps of food.
    " No news is good news" for the families that are still eating ! The Little Birdy must have gotten eaten by the kitty ! And can not report any information from the FDNY.

  8. #108
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Baltimore Maryland
    Posts
    21

    Default

    Hey Guys, I think we are a bit flippant about how important the FDNY order is for Seagrave. The company is on life support right now, with many workers let go (told they won't be hired back) and more and more "out sourcing" going on to poke the one's that remain. How does it go, it's a recession if your neighbor is out of work and a depression if you are out of work! It is apparent the management still wants to price their product so high, that it has brought their production down to all time lows. While Seagrave has been a high priced for years now, the pricing right now is so out of whack, the management must be smoking some strange weed to think they will get many sales. To do the rough math, 22 million high bid for the FDNY pumpers is not good business and FDNY should just turn and walk away from the "poke job" price thrown at them.....I feel bad for those who have no control over what the management has chosen to do to that great company. Moving on and securing a new job is no easy task in this economy. Will Seagrave go under? It's up to the investment club that holds the purse strings.....a sobering thought indeed, especially for those who need the employment!

  9. #109
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    The Seagrave Fire Apparatus, LLC buys there apparatus components from the same companies as the other builders in the fire service. The only reason for them to charge a much higher price for there trucks is if they are paying union wages to there employees and the other builders don't, which would justify a part of the reason for such a higher cost in purchasing a apparatus from them. Many smaller Vol fire departments can no longer afford to go with Seagrave and go for the most truck for the buck !

  10. #110
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    The Seagrave Fire Apparatus, LLC buys there apparatus components from the same companies as the other builders in the fire service. The only reason for them to charge a much higher price for there trucks is if they are paying union wages to there employees and the other builders don't, which would justify a part of the reason for such a higher cost in purchasing a apparatus from them. Many smaller Vol fire departments can no longer afford to go with Seagrave and go for the most truck for the buck !
    And another reason for a higher price can be with the quality of the building process. Higher standards and attention to detail often equate to higher prices.

  11. #111
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,951

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SEMPERFI3 View Post
    To do the rough math, 22 million high bid for the FDNY pumpers is not good business and FDNY should just turn and walk away from the "poke job" price thrown at them...
    Yes, Seagrave pricing can be a bit high. My department purchased a Seagrave engine a couple years ago, the quality of this engine vs the one that it replaced is far superior, however given what we got (much of the spec was derived from the DCFD engine spec) compared to what we paid for it, I think we overpaid for it when compared to how much "more truck" some other departments have gotten in that same price range (including other Seagrave units).

    Regardless, while the price difference in the FDNY engine bids is large, I don't think you can necessarily draw a concrete conclusion that their pricing is "out of whack" when you consider the entire picture of this particular picture. The true "wild card" in these bids is the FDNY warranty requirements.

    Seagrave has been almost exclusively building their engines for the past 20 years and dealing with the warranty requirements along the way. This experience should be able to provide them with sufficient information upon which to "price" the warranty coverage.

    Ferrara, prior to the current rear-mount order, has only build a couple of engines and some SOC units. This experience would also give them some insight into the "pricing" of the warranty.

    KME, to the best of my knowledge has not build anything for FDNY in at least the last 20 years. This lack of experience with FDNY's warranty requirements would likely put them at a disadvantage comparatively.

    So, if you look at the bids from this perspective, it's really not much of a reach to say that KME is underestimating the cost of the warranty work and has thus "under-priced" their bid plus there's the possibility of "discounting" in order to secure the contract, that Ferrara as a result of their prior FDNY work is better estimating the cost of the warranty, but may still have "under-priced" their bid and that Seagrave is that much higher because they are "closest to the mark" on the cost of the warranty.

    "Under-pricing" can be just as bad of, if not a worse, business practice as "over-pricing".

  12. #112
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,659

    Default

    FM49, very valid points.

    Then again...it could be that Seagrave is just over priced.

    In our few dealings with them...that's been what we have experienced.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #113
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    a few departments here in central jersey that ran Seagrave apparatus, are now going to order Pierce trucks because of the higher bid from Seagrave.Are there workers more skilled than any other fire apparatus builder, I do not think so, it all comes down to the managment of the company wanting to make a larger profit on there product!

  14. #114
    Forum Member DepChief03's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Leading the way
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Has their been any word on if the contract has been awarded?

  15. #115
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,369

    Default

    NEWS: Little Birdy asked the magic 8-ball "What is happening with the pumpers" and gave it a shake this morning. Magic 8-ball says "nothing has been awarded yet." Little Birdy then said "Why so long, whats going on?" and shook it again. Magic 8-ball says "I dont know but such a long wait is indeed unusual."
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  16. #116
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Question Bid Award

    News should be released in about 45 days on the bid award ! I also heard that there maybe a re-bid ?

  17. #117
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Pee-Ayy!
    Posts
    7,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    News should be released in about 45 days on the bid award ! I also heard that there maybe a re-bid ?
    Birdy had nothing to say other than what was posted.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  18. #118
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    News should be released in about 45 days on the bid award ! I also heard that there maybe a re-bid ?
    That would lead one to believe theres no desire for awarding to kme.

  19. #119
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    247

    Default

    Maybe KME, is building a Demo split-tilt stainless steel cab & chassis for the big shots over at the FDNY shops before they award a contract ?

  20. #120
    Forum Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Perhaps its just the fact that KME is a first time bidder and maybe soon a contractor and I'm sure there is a ton of documentation and soforth with the Fire Department and procurement department. A re-bid this late into it??? I can't see it,then again who knows? We shall see, as for the split tilt, I believe that KME built some already for Elgin, IL. I'll have to do some checking to confirm.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Bridgeton, Maine: A little birdy told me......
    By FWDbuff in forum Apparatus Innovation
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-08-2010, 05:16 PM
  2. A Little Birdy Told Me This Morning
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 11-05-2006, 12:14 PM
  3. A Little Birdy Told Me Da Rev
    By MalahatTwo7 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 10-16-2003, 07:36 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts