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Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #176
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    You know if these bidders would communicate a lil bit and get on the same page instead of trying to undercut and f u c k the other guy, many of the issues with FDNY's bidding process could be fixed very quickly.

    Go 2 or 3 RFP's or RFB's or whatever NYC calls their bid process and have every company refuse to bid and they might start singing a new tune.

    Expecting a quality product for what your paying is one thing. To have unrealistic expectations and be willing to cause and watch companies go out of business is another altogether.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 01-07-2013 at 10:43 AM.
    RK
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You know if these bidders would communicate a lil bit and get on the same page instead of trying to undercut and f u c k the other guy, many of the issues with FDNY's bidding process could be fixed very quickly.
    The words collusion and price fixing come to mind.
    BoxAlarm187 likes this.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Seems that the temptation to land an FDNY order large or small is TOO GREAT for some firms to resist. Thus is is doubtful that a refusal to bid by any and all vendors is a likely scenario anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53 View Post
    The words collusion and price fixing come to mind.
    Wrong. I didn't suggest driving the price up, I said refuse to bid based on unrealistic expectations from the purchaser.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  5. #180
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    http://www.kovatch.com/News/13-01-11...per_Order.aspx

    Hot off the press. News release from KME

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    Little Birdy is never wrong about FDNY. He is also pretty DOBA (dead on balls accurate) about 98% of other apparatus matters. Sometimes it takes time to confirm what he and magic 8-ball predict, but it always pans out in the end.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    How very nice. I sincerely hope that new vendors on FDNY orders are able to do what is required of them. Where does that leave Seagrave? I don't see very much evidence that they are surviving. Anybody able to fill us in?

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    Seagrave has the FDNY Aerialscope order that they are working on and there are other big cities with large apparatus orders that they can still bid on. They will survive ,but there prices have to match other builders or it's good by!

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    And if the other manufacturers prices are too low it will also be good bye.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Seagrave has the FDNY Aerialscope order that they are working on and there are other big cities with large apparatus orders that they can still bid on. They will survive ,but there prices have to match other builders or it's good by!
    They also have the tillers. But they better be careful, because KME just built a so-called "severe service" tiller for Camden NJ. I say "so-called" because it has been out of service more than it has been in service since delivered.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    FWD, do you know what happening with the tiller in Camden as far as why its OOS?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    FWD, do you know what happening with the tiller in Camden as far as why its OOS?
    "numerous" unspecified problems.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Sounds like the same type of problems Ferrara had with the 100' sticks for the FDNY? Then they went out and ordered 12 more !

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    Time alone will determine if new vendors like KME or Ferrara are just passing by or are here to stay. If they come through fine; if not, also fine.
    Last edited by wfd444; 01-13-2013 at 08:51 PM. Reason: spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Sounds like the same type of problems Ferrara had with the 100' sticks for the FDNY? Then they went out and ordered 12 more !
    I dont believe 12 more were ordered, I think they excercised an option on the original RFP to add-on for 12 more.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    A 90 pumper order is a good thing for any builder, it will keep workers on the payroll for three years, much better than getting laid off. It would have been nice if the city of New York could have split the order between Kme, Ferrara, & Seagrave. That would have sent work to all three plants!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    A 90 pumper order is a good thing for any builder, it will keep workers on the payroll for three years, much better than getting laid off. It would have been nice if the city of New York could have split the order between Kme, Ferrara, & Seagrave. That would have sent work to all three plants!
    Thats actually a pretty good idea, I like it.......But at what price?
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Now that Kme Fire Apparatus has a signed contract from the City of New York,to build 90 engines over a three year span, will this be the first " split tilt cab " built by Kme ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Wrong. I didn't suggest driving the price up, I said refuse to bid based on unrealistic expectations from the purchaser.
    It a manufacturer decides on their own not to be stupid and low-bid themselves out of business, good for them.

    But the second they "communicate a lil bit" and "get on the same page" like you stated, especially regarding contract bidding, it is called collusion which is highly illegal.

    By the way, collusion and price fixing doesn't necessarily denote driving up prices above what could be considered normal. It could mean that another company just refuses to low-ball another due to some kind-of agreement.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

  20. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    I dont believe 12 more were ordered, I think they excercised an option on the original RFP to add-on for 12 more.
    I believe there were two add-on orders. The first was for 21 and the second for 13.

    With the original order of 20 rigs, this brings the grand total to 54 rigs.
    Last edited by IronsMan53; 01-14-2013 at 09:16 PM.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53 View Post
    I believe there were two add-on orders. The first was for 21 and the second for 13.

    With the original order of 20 rigs, this brings the grand total to 54 rigs.
    At $1.34M per rig ....... Pretty sweet deal for Ferrera.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    At $1.34M per rig ....... Pretty sweet deal for Ferrera.
    Only if they built in enough room to cover the warranty work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    At $1.34M per rig ....... Pretty sweet deal for Ferrera.
    You are clueless about FDNY's warranty requirements, and what FDNY can (and will) do to one rig in that warranty period.......
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  24. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Now that Kme Fire Apparatus has a signed contract from the City of New York,to build 90 engines over a three year span, will this be the first " split tilt cab " built by Kme ?
    KME Receives FDNY Pumper Order
    January 11, 2013

    Nesquehoning, PA KME is pleased to announce that it has received a purchase order from the City of New York for 2000gpm pumper trucks. The engines are an award from a 2012 bid which provides the opportunity for FDNY to purchase units through November of 2015.

    According to John J. Kovatch III, KME President and CEO, Im excited about this new relationship. Weve studied FDNYs needs and waited for the right time. Our team has met with City personnel several times and Im confident that were a natural fit for them. I believe that our location, high level of product customization and dedication to quality, service and support will make us a valued, long term supplier of apparatus.

    The engines will be built for FDNY on a KME Severe Service chassis with a stainless steel split tilt cab. More information will be released in the near future.
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    Hey FWD, You hit the nail on the head, I think that KME, under bid the warranty cost over a 5 year period. If the pumpers cost the about $ 500k to build with a small profit,and you only have $ 50k left for the repairs over the next 5 years they may brake even or lose money on the contract!

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