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Thread: The Little Birdy has whispered yet again.......

  1. #161
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    this is too big to fail for them!
    I'm sure that American LaFrance (the original company) felt the same way when they got their FDNY contract.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com


  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFD-PIPEMAN View Post
    Is it possible that perhaps the pervious apparatus were over priced? I beleive KME will make out just fine on this deal, this is too big to fail for them! They have a very good record on the left coast with the largest fleet holding up just fine.
    The West Coast is not NYC nor FDNY....NYC is brutal on any apparatus.I want to wait and see how things turn out.

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    As long as this has taken and considering that KME, to my knowledge, had not yet offered a stainless steel split-tilt cab, my guess is KME is doing just that...building a prototype for review...before a contract is awarded.

    As for Pierce, I was told once by an executive, while on tour in Appleton, that they didn't want to get involved in the warrant/parts issue and they "didn't need FDNY's business anyway." Furthermore, watch the happenings with Oshkosh in the near future...and what may happen to Pierce as a result...

  4. #164
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    Things are not going that great for the super Pierce Mfg, there Florida, plant had a layoff a few months back with the Medtec EMS vehicles. And sales are not going threw the roof with the old Contender model fire apparatus . Anyone out there in the fire service know how much a 5- year bumper to bumper warranty costs for a pumper apparatus ? $ 550,000 sounds kind of low for a new stainless steel cab & body engine built by any manufacture.
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 10-25-2012 at 07:34 PM.

  5. #165
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    Post Bid Award ?

    So far as of today, I have not seen or heard of any official notice from the City of New York, or from the Kme fire apparatus company ? It seems as they are keeping keeping the news a big secret.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pumper Guy View Post
    Time will tell.......
    Yep. The birdy was right.
    ZMastr28 likes this.

  7. #167
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    Given that the FFA plant was full end-to-end with appatatus in production when I as there a few months ago, I honestly don't know how they could have handled this contract if they had gotten it.

    I'm sure they are doing quite well with the ladder and speciality truck contracts they have from FDNY given the volume of apparatus they are buildingfor other cities on multi-truck contracts.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  8. #168
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    Default Business 101 and such

    As a past business owner. There less than desirable projects that came-up for bid. I needed the work, but had a high price point for what I was willing to accept for such a job I really didn't want to do. Bidding projects are the same. FDNY's truck warranty borders on insanity for a bidder looking to make a profit. Bumper to bumper for 5 years on trucks they beat the sh1t out of and don't take care of like the vollies do. Quantity builds that allow a manufacturer to make potential sales money by lowering per unit price, because they will make it up by multiple units with low margin. Only to loose their shirts on warranty repairs, and stiff penalties for late production deliver contract loses. Seagrave knows the game well. A few years ago on a local million dollar pumper/rescue order, they told the local dealer, we are not going to pay for warranty repairs anymore, you as a dealer have to eat it. The local dealer said, f you, and dropped selling their trucks. The moral is, if you are willing to pay enough, we will do it for you. Bidding projects for profit...

  9. #169
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    Default Contracts

    A certain defense contractor comes to mind. They would almost give the product away to beat the competition, and then they would lay the wood to the military for change orders, training, spare parts and future refurbishments. Once they have them on the hook, they have a lot more leverage.

  10. #170
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    From all the comments I'm reading, ones gotta wonder why the same builders continue to bid on these apparatus, I do understand KME is a new bidder this time! Just make you think that after all the smoke and dust settles that there is a bit of $$ to still be made. Even knowing not many if any builders has ever got the 5% hold back.

  11. #171
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    Bid prices for 93 pumpers divided into a 3-year schedule of production and delivery were:
    1] Seagrave......@$750,000 including $100,000 for training [a bit stiff I'd say]
    2] Ferarra.........@$650,000
    3] KME.............@$550,000

    From top to bottom dollar.....and in between....If FDNY has selected KME for this contract then congratulations. Now to actually make theory into a sustainable reality. This part can be more difficult than winning the award to begin with. Any serious breach of the contract mid-way during its fulfillment could result in cancellation if things prove to be irreconcilably beyond any mutually satisfactory agreement over whatever dispute may arise: say unsatisfactory durability and reliability on NYC roadways that are brutal on any apparatus. Or perhaps unsatisfactory warranty service early on before the expiration and complete fulfillment maintaining confidence in the vendor's ability to come through.

  12. #172
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    If KME is awarded the contract, it looks like they may be in for a $9 million to 18 million dollar lesson. The guys with more experiance dealing with FDNY seem to think the price of entry is higher than KME. Notice, Seagrave with the most experiance probably knows the real cost better than anyone.

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    KME has a reputation of being the low bidder in general not just on this FDNY contract. If they have miscalculated the cost of this job, they may have to recoup that loss by an across-the-board price increase on all future orders thus spreading the loss and putting it on the backs of future sales. The danger though would be failure to come in as the lowest bidder any longer and losing even MORE money than just from the FDNY 3-year contract and 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty.

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    Picture of the new tillers is posted on this Facebook page...
    http://www.facebook.com/#!/FdnyIncidents

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    Did the Little Birdy fly south for the winter, no much news coming from him on the FDNY pumper contract ?

  16. #176
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    You know if these bidders would communicate a lil bit and get on the same page instead of trying to undercut and f u c k the other guy, many of the issues with FDNY's bidding process could be fixed very quickly.

    Go 2 or 3 RFP's or RFB's or whatever NYC calls their bid process and have every company refuse to bid and they might start singing a new tune.

    Expecting a quality product for what your paying is one thing. To have unrealistic expectations and be willing to cause and watch companies go out of business is another altogether.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 01-07-2013 at 09:43 AM.
    Robert Kramer
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  17. #177
    Forum Member IronsMan53's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    You know if these bidders would communicate a lil bit and get on the same page instead of trying to undercut and f u c k the other guy, many of the issues with FDNY's bidding process could be fixed very quickly.
    The words collusion and price fixing come to mind.
    BoxAlarm187 likes this.
    I can't believe they actually pay me to do this!!!

    One friend noted yesterday that a fire officer only carries a flashlight, sometimes prompting grumbling from firefighters who have to lug tools and hoses.
    "The old saying is you never know how heavy that flashlight can become," the friend said.
    -from a tragic story posted on firefighterclosecalls.com

  18. #178
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    Seems that the temptation to land an FDNY order large or small is TOO GREAT for some firms to resist. Thus is is doubtful that a refusal to bid by any and all vendors is a likely scenario anytime soon.

  19. #179
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IronsMan53 View Post
    The words collusion and price fixing come to mind.
    Wrong. I didn't suggest driving the price up, I said refuse to bid based on unrealistic expectations from the purchaser.
    Robert Kramer
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  20. #180
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    http://www.kovatch.com/News/13-01-11...per_Order.aspx

    Hot off the press. News release from KME

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