1. #26
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    On my paid dept. we have only side mount pump panels. With the newer trucks there's pretty good access to them, although we don't do much other then hose them out once in a while and check for leaks and check the clamps on the flexible rubber hoses.

    On my rural dept., we went with a top mount on the newer engine because many of the roads are narrow, and this gets the operator out of the road so tankers or other trucks can get by. And on some roads if the truck had to be parked on the opposite side, the operator might be standing in a ditch. Our newer engine/tanker is a side mount however because of length. I haven't seen a new front mount in ages. And that's kind of expensive to fix if you have an accident with your pump sitting right out front.

  2. #27
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    In a lot of rural area a simple 750 GPM 160 PSI pump makes the best sense. It gives the truck pump and roll capability. Front mount pumps are easier to add additional outlets or foam with out taking the truck apart like it would be to upgrade a mid ship. Front mounts have less things to remember to get water flowing compared to a midship pump

  3. #28
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    H&W in Hillsboro, OR cranks out several front mounts each year. I just live near by and like working with them.

    http://www.hwev.com/fire_apparatus/hnw/commercial.php

  4. #29
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    At one time -a bumper pumper was a good 20% cheaper than a midship. They still make sense for a water supply pumper.
    ?

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    Great topic, so far, lots of opinions based on facts. As to the front mounts - originally, most were crankshaft driven, directly off the engine. Barton - American Pump Company made hundreds of them, and they were extremely popular in rural areas, and rather durable. And there was a West Coast Manufacturer that had an "intercab" pump With today's motor designs, the pumps would have to be driven hydraulically or with a PTO. With the PTO to the front, there are engineering and mechanical issues that have to be overcome.
    As far as safety for the pump operator - there are pros and cons to every location on the apparatus. In the end, it boils down to what works best for your individual department.

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    When we were lucky enough to get our AFG for a tnaker, we decided that it was either going to be front or side mount panel. This was done for teh length of the vehicle as well as to eliminate the need of the operator to climb up and down during set up. Our attack truck has a top mount and we love it when you are on the scene and pumping. Setting it up is a little tiresome as you are up and down, but it is also easier to have access to both sides for intakes and discharges with the top as opposed to a side.

    We all wanted to get a front mount, but we weren't able to get any bids that would meet the timeframe. It seems that as they are not commonly built anymore, they take longer to get through the plant. The other issue we had was with the pto configuration and the new emissions regulations. The couple manufaturers that said they could do the pump hadn't had emough time to figure out the routing and that was going to add to the time.

    As to the argument about hitting things and ruining a pump, many of the area departments had front mounts for many years. Some got stuck in the mud going to a pond or creek, some went into the ditch, but none were ever damaged by a collision. Not saying it couldn't happen, but it didn't. And if you are hit hard enough to damage a front mount pump, what would have the collision done to the radiator, engine, and transmission?

    As we are a rural area, the commercial cabs seem to hold up and be as useful as custom cabs. We even did find a cabover with a front mount in our search. That was an intersting looking truck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post

    How about rear mount controls? I've never even seen one in person, but I think that they would be good for situations where drafting is required since you have rear suction .
    Our newest pumper has a rearmount pump with officer side controls and I've yet to hear a single firefighter comment that they'd rather have any other type since. Like FireMedic noted, we too run with a small duty shift and the top mounts we always ran were not optimal for the multiple tasks the operator performed.

    As for pump access with the rearmount? Our's was built by Toyne and has far better access to the pump than most rearmount pumps we looked at.

    As I've noted here before, next time we'll have the panel on the driver's side as we've had a few issues with the pump on the officers side. Whether you get snow or not is a big issue in our minds. We used to get snow (last year, not this one) and dealing with the pump panel while standing in the snowbank is a PITA. Also if like us you have a bunch of sidewalks, they become easy to trip backwards over while standing at the. Both issues are alleviated by apparatus placement, but where our engine rolls to lots of EMS calls and the pumps' operated to circulate water, we do not block the road as we would for an actual fire (when it won't impact access of other trucks). In our minds, the operator being on the street side can be corrected by closing the road which is our SOP on those calls that normally require an operator at the panel.

  8. #33
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    Check out this truck. Front mount 1250 .
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWDX-...feature=relmfu

  9. #34
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    We go with side mount for easy access to the panel for the operator as they may be doing other tasks as needed. As for better visibility of the scene from top mounts....we let the trucks park in front of the building, the engines either past or short of that. Doesn't leave much need to see what's on the fire ground as there are fairly often trees, bushes, fences, etc in the way.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  10. #35
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    My department uses all side mounted pupms on our trucks and we seem to love the idea. It save time form having to climb up and down. That way you can just get the first attack line started then hook straight up to your hydrant without having to climb down you just side step a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Good way to get killed on the highway and never know what hit you (literally). I am a top mount fan myself. Gets the engineer out of the road, gives pretty much a 360* view of the entire scene, lets you operate the pump, scene lights and deck gun all from one location and gives access to either side of the truck without walking around.

    The only arguments I have heard against top mounts was added OAL, having to get up and down from the crosswalk and not being able to hold a leg against your supply line to feel for pressure. But then again, that's what we have guages for.
    this actually happens quite often in Rural departments when the first-due engine is a 2 man cab

  12. #37
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    Is there any midship pumps with side mount controls on the officer made by any manufacture ?

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    Is there any midship pumps with side mount controls on the officer made by any manufacture ?
    Yes, look at the photos in post #24 in this thread. Most manufacturers have this option, though very few departments select it.
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  14. #39
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    BoxAlarm what advantage would you see in a officer side pump panel ? I am a traditionalist if it aint broke why fix it. From what i reading thru all of this is engineer station location is the biggest decision when specing a truck.

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    Personally speaking, I don't see an advantage to having the pump panel on the officer's side, but each department has their own reasons for doing things. See RFDACM02's post above about his department's experience with them, as was as ejfeicht's department's selection on the officer's side pump panel.

    Something you probably don't know is that virtually every ALF 700-series left the factory with an officer's side pump panel. And that's a huge number of rigs...

    As for where the pump panel is, it's pretty rare that it's the biggest decision when putting a set of specs together. When it comes to pumps and pump panels, departments tend to stick with what works for them, be it rear-mount, top-mount, etc, etc, etc. Generally, a lot more thought goes into body design, chassis selection, motor & transmission combinations, and attack line location than the pump panel location.
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  16. #41
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    To echo BoxAlarm's sentiments, that was probably one of the easiest decisions we made on the last pumper we purchased. We looked at a rear mount, side mount and a Command View, and when the time came for the discussion about it, the whole committee agreed without any argument to stay with our top mounts. We don't really have to worry about the length, and felt the standard talking points advocating top mounts worked for us.

    We did add 5" in height to the walkway so that we could see over the 10" raised roof a little better.

  17. #42
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    I'm all about some side-mounts. All 30 of our first-line apparati with pumps have side-mount 1000 GPM Hales. That's engines, straight-stick quints, and tower ladders with pumps. All of our reserve apparati have the same. We have three tractor drawn tillered aerials, and they do not have pumps.

    I like the shorter wheelbase of the side-mount. A rear mount with a side panel would work, too, if I had to. We have some very tight streets, and small turning radius is important. Likewise, I like working from the ground. I don't like discharges on the pump panel, but we only have one, and it's typically used for a 1 3/4" trash line, so no big deal for small stuff where that's the only line that's going to be on the ground. I just don't like to step over and around lines at my pump panel. Likewise, I prefer crosslays come off the seat side, not the driver's side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    I'm all about some side-mounts. All 30 of our first-line apparati with pumps have side-mount 1000 GPM Hales. That's engines, straight-stick quints, and tower ladders with pumps. All of our reserve apparati have the same. We have three tractor drawn tillered aerials, and they do not have pumps.

    I like the shorter wheelbase of the side-mount. A rear mount with a side panel would work, too, if I had to. We have some very tight streets, and small turning radius is important. Likewise, I like working from the ground. I don't like discharges on the pump panel, but we only have one, and it's typically used for a 1 3/4" trash line, so no big deal for small stuff where that's the only line that's going to be on the ground. I just don't like to step over and around lines at my pump panel. Likewise, I prefer crosslays come off the seat side, not the driver's side.
    If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?
    Discharges aren't required on the pump panel, no matter what the rating.
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  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Discharges aren't required on the pump panel, no matter what the rating.
    Every side mount I've worked with has discharges on the panel so I guess I just assumed that's how it was, I stand corrected.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post
    Every side mount I've worked with has discharges on the panel so I guess I just assumed that's how it was, I stand corrected.
    That's because it requires less plumbing to take them straight out through the panel. Any other place is going to eat into your storage space.

  22. #47
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    The front mount is easier to operate since most primary discharges are out toward the body or officer side of the apparatus.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    The front mount is easier to operate since most primary discharges are out toward the body or officer side of the apparatus.
    Yes, yes, we get it - you like a front mount pump versus a mid-ship pump.
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  24. #49
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    I like the KISS principal. The the new Rosenbauer midships pumps look like the cats meow when it comes down to a well planned pump package. It seems the one down side to midships is the limited plumbing option when future upgrades are needed if they are not planned right from new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    It seems the one down side to midships is the limited plumbing option when future upgrades are needed if they are not planned right from new.
    I'm still lost on the "pump upgrades." I've never had to "upgrade" a pump on the dozens of rigs I've operated or been around. What has your department upgraded on their pumps?
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