1. #51
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    What I mean by upgrade is adding extra discharges. My last department had a older front mount 750 GPM with three 2.5" outlets and they had me install two 2" pipes to the rear to provide two 1.5" discharges for pre-connected attack lines. I also made a simple around the pump foam injector that used a 1/4" gated gate valve for metering ,it worked ok for the limited application's I designed it for.Also say you truck came with only one 2.5" discharge and you want it in a new location for a pre-connect a midship is very difficult to simply add a pipe,unlike a front or rear mount.

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    Now it makes more sense what you're referring to. However, you have to keep in mind that most pumpers are being delivered with at least 1000gpm pumps now, and a good apparatus committee, working in conjunction with the salesman, should be designing their pumper for not only their current needs, but future needs as well. That not only includes the discharge locations, but the panel panel layout as well.

    There's no reason that even a 1000gpm mid-ship pump couldn't have a front discharge, rear discharge, two preconnected crosslays, plus the usual pump panel discharges.

    Again, I'm not disputing that a front-mount wouldn't make a fine pump for some departments, but the mid-ships certainly aren't as bad as I think you envision they are.
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    Boxalarm, I have been playing around on the Rosenbauer build a truck . Wow starting see what you guys mean by lots of new options. They have a huge selection of options. Gues us dinosaurs learn something new every day lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    The front mount allows for more storage on the apparatus body. The front mount makes maintenance a lot easier then a mid ship pump. Front mount pumps have a advantage that upgrades to pump are fairly simple. The front pump is simpler to train people on then a midship pump,topmount.
    No problem on Midship access IF you spec them right. We have one front mount and everything else is a Midship. Given MY choices,if I ever went away from a midship it would be to a rear mount. In TODAYS world a front mount is very limited in performance(gpm) and drive mounting with the new cooling requirements. I disagree on the training aspect as well but that's half a century of prejudice showing thru. A Fire pump is a fire pump but you won't see many 1000gpm Plus front mounts.

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    WHAT "limited" options? Truth be known,your plumbing options are GREATER on a derated midship than on ANY frontmount. We have reconfigured several of our midships over the years and all it takes is a flange, a valve,some linkage,pipe and/or hose. VERY easy. A front mount for the most part comes as a 500,750 or a 1000 and has LIMITED discharge options. Yes,I know how to increase a frt mts discharges but really,why?.
    Last edited by Rescue101; 03-12-2012 at 09:31 PM.

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    Recue 101 see my post above. Yes there is some older front mount 1250 GPM pumpers made by Welches on Ford F800 trucks. The reason mid ships are more complicated is access and limited space available.In a rural FD a 750 or 1000 GPM pump is quite common. In a rural department with limited funds modifying trucks is quite common.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperFire123 View Post
    Recue 101 see my post above. Yes there is some older front mount 1250 GPM pumpers made by Welches on Ford F800 trucks. The reason mid ships are more complicated is access and limited space available.In a rural FD a 750 or 1000 GPM pump is quite common. In a rural department with limited funds modifying trucks is quite common.
    Hehe Superfly,Drag out your map and see where Bridgton is. HINT, I'm NOT inner city. 40 years ago there was a plethora of front mounts around here. Today, I can count 'em on one hand.In my years here,I've been involved in building,speccing and repairing many types of equipment including Fire apparatus. Yes,up until a few years ago we built some of our own. NEVER have I seen a 1250 Front mount. I know they exist but there isn't any I'm aware of around here. We have 1 pump and roll and it's a self powered 5t military 6x6. We simply have no need for that kind of operation here. A front mount will freeze up much quicker than a midship,simple fact. We carry 90 degree elbows and LONG suctions so we can set up anywhere a front mount can. ALL of our Midships have sliding doors,removable panels.and removable tops so servicing them is really no more difficult than a front mount. We tend to buy BIG pumps and derate them,we spec for future use and with any of the newer rigs, we haven't had to change any plumbing due to proper planning and speccing. Not opposed to a front mount but most of your concerns on midmounts haven't been a problem HERE. Like I said,if we were to go away from the MM's it would be to the REAR,not the front. And to date,i have yet to find a reason to go away from the midmounts. Just my jaded view on pumps.

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    Rescue101 your right about proper planning. What I am saying is if a department is stuck with a older pumper and need to do retro fitting mid ships are more difficult if they are older design. There is only one rear mount I like and it made by Rosenbauer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?
    I don't do purchasing, but I'm guessing that that's all we need given all the factors for our department. Namely, occupancies, fire loads, unit coverage, water supply, etc. It's probably the bare minimum to retain our ISO rating. You know governments, they'll pay for only what they need to scrape by and nothing more, unless they're blowing obscene amounts of money on useless projects.

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    Quote Originally Posted by footrat View Post
    I don't do purchasing, but I'm guessing that that's all we need given all the factors for our department. Namely, occupancies, fire loads, unit coverage, water supply, etc. It's probably the bare minimum to retain our ISO rating. You know governments, they'll pay for only what they need to scrape by and nothing more, unless they're blowing obscene amounts of money on useless projects.
    I hear exactly what you're saying. We currently have a 500 GPM and a 750 GPM pumper and they work great for us. I was just curious because when ISO last visited us they recommended nothing less than a 1250 for us. I'm not sure why because we're very rural, our municipal water system can't support that GPM, its has a hard time supplying our 750 sometimes, and we'll have a hard time getting that much water to it in our non-hydranted areas, but that's what they said. I do realize that just because its a 1250 it doesn't mean you have to flow that, but what's the point of having one if you can't support it.
    Last edited by FF715MRFD; 03-15-2012 at 07:33 PM.

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    FF715, the larger pumps benefit you in the rural areas when drafting. It's a lot quicker to fill a tanker 1250 gpm than it is 750 gpm, or draft at 1250 gpm and then supply a long lay.

    They're not quite as much of a factor in areas with municipal water systems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FF715MRFD View Post
    I hear exactly what you're saying. We currently have a 500 GPM and a 750 GPM pumper and they work great for us. I was just curious because when ISO last visited us they recommended nothing less than a 1250 for us. I'm not sure why because we're very rural, our municipal water system can't support that GPM, its has a hard time supplying our 750 sometimes, and we'll have a hard time getting that much water to it in our non-hydranted areas, but that's what they said. I do realize that just because its a 1250 it doesn't mean you have to flow that, but what's the point of having one if you can't support it.
    The nice thing about centrifugal pumps is that if you have a great hydrant pushing more than the rated capacity, you'll still get that water out the discharges. We have great water in the county. Pretty much every hydrant is over 150 psi, most approaching 180. We don't draft. The only two pieces of hard suction left in the county are at the fire academy where pump testing is done in a cistern.

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    Hate to revive a dead thread, but I haven't had much luck with posting a new topic.

    I recently saw (what I thought was) a picture of an engine with a rear mount pump, and rear facing panel. The weird part was that it appeared as though the panel was elevated with all of the connections underneath the operators platform.

    I know Rosenbauer is doing something like this as a midship pump, but I have been unable to find the picture that I saw again.

    Have any of you guys seen this or am i just going insane?

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