Pump Location opions?

[RoaddoggAK]

To echo BoxAlarm's sentiments, that was probably one of the easiest decisions we made on the last pumper we purchased. We looked at a rear mount, side mount and a Command View, and when the time came for the discussion about it, the whole committee agreed without any argument to stay with our top mounts. We don't really have to worry about the length, and felt the standard talking points advocating top mounts worked for us.

We did add 5" in height to the walkway so that we could see over the 10" raised roof a little better.

[footrat]

I'm all about some side-mounts. All 30 of our first-line apparati with pumps have side-mount 1000 GPM Hales. That's engines, straight-stick quints, and tower ladders with pumps. All of our reserve apparati have the same. We have three tractor drawn tillered aerials, and they do not have pumps.

I like the shorter wheelbase of the side-mount. A rear mount with a side panel would work, too, if I had to. We have some very tight streets, and small turning radius is important. Likewise, I like working from the ground. I don't like discharges on the pump panel, but we only have one, and it's typically used for a 1 3/4" trash line, so no big deal for small stuff where that's the only line that's going to be on the ground. I just don't like to step over and around lines at my pump panel. Likewise, I prefer crosslays come off the seat side, not the driver's side.

[FF715MRFD]

I'm all about some side-mounts. All 30 of our first-line apparati with pumps have side-mount 1000 GPM Hales. That's engines, straight-stick quints, and tower ladders with pumps. All of our reserve apparati have the same. We have three tractor drawn tillered aerials, and they do not have pumps.

I like the shorter wheelbase of the side-mount. A rear mount with a side panel would work, too, if I had to. We have some very tight streets, and small turning radius is important. Likewise, I like working from the ground. I don't like discharges on the pump panel, but we only have one, and it's typically used for a 1 3/4" trash line, so no big deal for small stuff where that's the only line that's going to be on the ground. I just don't like to step over and around lines at my pump panel. Likewise, I prefer crosslays come off the seat side, not the driver's side.

If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?

[BoxAlarm187]

If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?

Discharges aren't required on the pump panel, no matter what the rating.

[FF715MRFD]

Discharges aren't required on the pump panel, no matter what the rating.

Every side mount I've worked with has discharges on the panel so I guess I just assumed that's how it was, I stand corrected.

[johnsb]

Every side mount I've worked with has discharges on the panel so I guess I just assumed that's how it was, I stand corrected.

That's because it requires less plumbing to take them straight out through the panel. Any other place is going to eat into your storage space.

[SuperFire123]

The front mount is easier to operate since most primary discharges are out toward the body or officer side of the apparatus.

[BoxAlarm187]

The front mount is easier to operate since most primary discharges are out toward the body or officer side of the apparatus.

Yes, yes, we get it - you like a front mount pump versus a mid-ship pump.

[SuperFire123]

I like the KISS principal. The the new Rosenbauer midships pumps look like the cats meow when it comes down to a well planned pump package. It seems the one down side to midships is the limited plumbing option when future upgrades are needed if they are not planned right from new.

[BoxAlarm187]

It seems the one down side to midships is the limited plumbing option when future upgrades are needed if they are not planned right from new.

I'm still lost on the "pump upgrades." I've never had to "upgrade" a pump on the dozens of rigs I've operated or been around. What has your department upgraded on their pumps?

[SuperFire123]

What I mean by upgrade is adding extra discharges. My last department had a older front mount 750 GPM with three 2.5" outlets and they had me install two 2" pipes to the rear to provide two 1.5" discharges for pre-connected attack lines. I also made a simple around the pump foam injector that used a 1/4" gated gate valve for metering ,it worked ok for the limited application's I designed it for.Also say you truck came with only one 2.5" discharge and you want it in a new location for a pre-connect a midship is very difficult to simply add a pipe,unlike a front or rear mount.

[BoxAlarm187]

Now it makes more sense what you're referring to. However, you have to keep in mind that most pumpers are being delivered with at least 1000gpm pumps now, and a good apparatus committee, working in conjunction with the salesman, should be designing their pumper for not only their current needs, but future needs as well. That not only includes the discharge locations, but the panel panel layout as well.

There's no reason that even a 1000gpm mid-ship pump couldn't have a front discharge, rear discharge, two preconnected crosslays, plus the usual pump panel discharges.

Again, I'm not disputing that a front-mount wouldn't make a fine pump for some departments, but the mid-ships certainly aren't as bad as I think you envision they are.

[SuperFire123]

Boxalarm, I have been playing around on the Rosenbauer build a truck . Wow starting see what you guys mean by lots of new options. They have a huge selection of options. Gues us dinosaurs learn something new every day lol

[Rescue101]

The front mount allows for more storage on the apparatus body. The front mount makes maintenance a lot easier then a mid ship pump. Front mount pumps have a advantage that upgrades to pump are fairly simple. The front pump is simpler to train people on then a midship pump,topmount.

No problem on Midship access IF you spec them right. We have one front mount and everything else is a Midship. Given MY choices,if I ever went away from a midship it would be to a rear mount. In TODAYS world a front mount is very limited in performance(gpm) and drive mounting with the new cooling requirements. I disagree on the training aspect as well but that's half a century of prejudice showing thru. A Fire pump is a fire pump but you won't see many 1000gpm Plus front mounts.

[Rescue101]

WHAT "limited" options? Truth be known,your plumbing options are GREATER on a derated midship than on ANY frontmount. We have reconfigured several of our midships over the years and all it takes is a flange, a valve,some linkage,pipe and/or hose. VERY easy. A front mount for the most part comes as a 500,750 or a 1000 and has LIMITED discharge options. Yes,I know how to increase a frt mts discharges but really,why?.

[SuperFire123]

Recue 101 see my post above. Yes there is some older front mount 1250 GPM pumpers made by Welches on Ford F800 trucks. The reason mid ships are more complicated is access and limited space available.In a rural FD a 750 or 1000 GPM pump is quite common. In a rural department with limited funds modifying trucks is quite common.

[Rescue101]

Recue 101 see my post above. Yes there is some older front mount 1250 GPM pumpers made by Welches on Ford F800 trucks. The reason mid ships are more complicated is access and limited space available.In a rural FD a 750 or 1000 GPM pump is quite common. In a rural department with limited funds modifying trucks is quite common.

Hehe Superfly,Drag out your map and see where Bridgton is. HINT, I'm NOT inner city. 40 years ago there was a plethora of front mounts around here. Today, I can count 'em on one hand.In my years here,I've been involved in building,speccing and repairing many types of equipment including Fire apparatus. Yes,up until a few years ago we built some of our own. NEVER have I seen a 1250 Front mount. I know they exist but there isn't any I'm aware of around here. We have 1 pump and roll and it's a self powered 5t military 6x6. We simply have no need for that kind of operation here. A front mount will freeze up much quicker than a midship,simple fact. We carry 90 degree elbows and LONG suctions so we can set up anywhere a front mount can. ALL of our Midships have sliding doors,removable panels.and removable tops so servicing them is really no more difficult than a front mount. We tend to buy BIG pumps and derate them,we spec for future use and with any of the newer rigs, we haven't had to change any plumbing due to proper planning and speccing. Not opposed to a front mount but most of your concerns on midmounts haven't been a problem HERE. Like I said,if we were to go away from the MM's it would be to the REAR,not the front. And to date,i have yet to find a reason to go away from the midmounts. Just my jaded view on pumps.

[SuperFire123]

Rescue101 your right about proper planning. What I am saying is if a department is stuck with a older pumper and need to do retro fitting mid ships are more difficult if they are older design. There is only one rear mount I like and it made by Rosenbauer.

[footrat]

If you don't mind me asking, why only 1000 GPM pumps? Is it because you don't want discharges on the pump panel?

I don't do purchasing, but I'm guessing that that's all we need given all the factors for our department. Namely, occupancies, fire loads, unit coverage, water supply, etc. It's probably the bare minimum to retain our ISO rating. You know governments, they'll pay for only what they need to scrape by and nothing more, unless they're blowing obscene amounts of money on useless projects.

[FF715MRFD]

I don't do purchasing, but I'm guessing that that's all we need given all the factors for our department. Namely, occupancies, fire loads, unit coverage, water supply, etc. It's probably the bare minimum to retain our ISO rating. You know governments, they'll pay for only what they need to scrape by and nothing more, unless they're blowing obscene amounts of money on useless projects.

I hear exactly what you're saying. We currently have a 500 GPM and a 750 GPM pumper and they work great for us. I was just curious because when ISO last visited us they recommended nothing less than a 1250 for us. I'm not sure why because we're very rural, our municipal water system can't support that GPM, its has a hard time supplying our 750 sometimes, and we'll have a hard time getting that much water to it in our non-hydranted areas, but that's what they said. I do realize that just because its a 1250 it doesn't mean you have to flow that, but what's the point of having one if you can't support it.