1. #26
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    Just recently a couple of depts around central Texas have purchased Custom Contenders, labeled as a Contender. A local metro dept went from Quantums to Contenders. Sure it has to do with money.
    Another local dept just ordered a Crimson pumper for $626,000. A parade piece for sure. Prices for these trucks is getting crazy.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunnyv View Post
    What are "barrier doors"?
    Doors that have an open step well at the bottom: Such as Evantson, IL.

    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    NEVER, EVER, put a EVS3000 behind an engine that is making more than 375HP (by today's engine ratings). You WILL, regret it.
    Why do you say that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Doors that have an open step well at the bottom: Such as Evantson, IL.
    Thanks for the example. Now, if someone will excuse my ignorance, what is the advantage to a barrier door? Is it high clearance or less likely to incur damage? All I see is the step exposed to the weather, so likely to be slippery due to rain/ice/snow/slush.

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    Some departments that spend a lot of time on the interstate prefer them to clear guardrails and jersey walls. Other's don't like them for the exact reason you mentioned.
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    I don't know about the barrier doors, Thanks, one thing i left out about the truck is we got the hydraulic ladder rack with one hard suction on the rack and one on the driver side. It also included i believe 7 or 8 adjustable shelves and the gear grid system on driver side high side compartment, passenger side high side has a tilt down tray. here is a link to a picture.
    http://www.firenews.net/3283/boiling...s-fire-rescue/
    Last edited by bvfd1927; 04-03-2012 at 01:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    dammit... I had a post that would make some very unhappy with what we paid for, for a custom, with better specs. Instead, I'll say this....

    NEVER, EVER, put a EVS3000 behind an engine that is making more than 375HP (by today's engine ratings). You WILL, regret it.

    FM1
    Out of curiosity, why? Allison is currently rating the EVS3000 at 450HP max input and 1250 torque. Since torque is the weak spot in a tranny, could that be your problem? Or, are you encountering the EVS3500 wide ratio at 330 and 985 respectively?

    What engines are giving you fits?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 :
    NEVER, EVER, put a EVS3000 behind an engine that is making more than 375HP (by today's engine ratings). You WILL, regret it.


    Why do you say that?
    It is like putting a GM Turbo350 behind a 500HP engine, when you should have put in a Turbo 400.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepundit View Post
    Out of curiosity, why? Allison is currently rating the EVS3000 at 450HP max input and 1250 torque. Since torque is the weak spot in a tranny, could that be your problem? Or, are you encountering the EVS3500 wide ratio at 330 and 985 respectively?

    What engines are giving you fits?
    2 Volley stations I do work for have each, a 400HP and 435HP with the EVS3000. One has snapped the input shaft on the 3000, and the other just plain cooked the friction discs... TWICE!!!! Both are running ISM Cummins for engines. We play the torque game, and only use the 4000's.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIREMECH1 View Post
    2 Volley stations I do work for have each, a 400HP and 435HP with the EVS3000. One has snapped the input shaft on the 3000, and the other just plain cooked the friction discs... TWICE!!!! Both are running ISM Cummins for engines. We play the torque game, and only use the 4000's.

    FM1
    Who put ISMs with that trans? I've always seen an ISL with around 400 hp listed as okay with the 3000, but not something with as much torque as an ISM. Huh.
    "Share your knowledge - it's a way to achieve immortality." - Stolen from Chase Sargent's Buddy to Boss program

  10. #35
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    Wheelbase: 210”
    Travel Height: 10’-5”+/-2”
    Travel Length: 34’-5”
    Cab / Chassis: E-ONE Quest® extended cab w/ 12” vista roof
    Extruded aluminum cab structure
    Air conditioning, Bostrom® seating for seven (7)
    Engine: 2007 Cummins® ISM 500 HP w/ Jacob’s compression brake
    Transmission: Allison ® EVS 4000
    Front / Rear Axles: Meritor® FL943 21,000 lbs front, Meritor® RS-25-160 27,000 lbs rear.
    Brakes: Meritor® EX225 17” disc front and rear, ABS
    Alternator: 320A Leece Neville®
    Pump: Hale® QMAX 2,000 GPM single stage
    Plumbing: Akron valves with stainless steel manifolds and piping
    1600 Hpro/Foam Pro foam system
    Compartments: Full height driver and officer with approx. 269 Cu. Ft. of compartment storage, R∙O•M roll-up doors
    Enclosed wheel well storage for (7) SCBA bottles
    Hosebed: 95 Cu. Ft.
    Ladder Storage: Officer side 2-arm ladder rack
    Tank: 780 gallon polypropylene water tank (750 water, 30 foam)
    Class1 Multiplex electrical system, Vehicle Data Recorder with CrewGuard occupant detection system.
    Federal Signal PA300R siren with ES100 speaker and Federal Signal® pedestal mounted Q2B siren

    20KW PTO generator, 6000w light tower, 6 1000w floodlights, 1000' 5" hose, 1000' 2 1/2" hose, 28' ladder, 14' roof ladder, 16' roof ladder, 2 hard sleeves.

    ~ $530k

    http://www.e-one.com/merchandise/eon...cks.htm?id=123
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by npfd801 View Post
    Who put ISMs with that trans? I've always seen an ISL with around 400 hp listed as okay with the 3000, but not something with as much torque as an ISM. Huh.
    I agree. I did not think that added up so I went and surfed around a bit...

    Off Cummins Site for ISM '07 motor.

    ISM 435** 435 1550 @ 1200 2100
    ISM 400** 400 1550 @ 1200 2100

    Off Allison site
    http://www.allisontransmission.com/d...t/specs_HS.pdf

    I think the ISM would have needed the 4000 series transmission right out of the box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefDog View Post
    I think the ISM would have needed the 4000 series transmission right out of the box.
    I totally agree.

    The question remains, who mated them up?

  13. #38
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    Have Cummins change the Engine ECM to the "soft pedal" programming. We have it on our E1 Ism 380 w Allison 3000. You can cram your foot thru the floorboard,it WILL NOT give you the 380 until you get rolling. Then it will continually ramp up until you get all 380. That being said, anything over 330 here WILL have the 4000.

  14. #39
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    CD, ISM's could be had from 330-350 all the way up to just around 500hp. So they don't necessarily warrant the 4000. Above 350 I would STRONGLY advise it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    CD, ISM's could be had from 330-350 all the way up to just around 500hp. So they don't necessarily warrant the 4000. Above 350 I would STRONGLY advise it.
    THANK YOU!!!!

    As to who mated the EVS3000 up to a an ISM??? Quite a few have for reasons as follows. Cost... under 400HP, etc. I've seen several of them, and seen the aftermath. Some haven't problems... yet. But when they start making more that 1-2 runs a month, they will.

    FM1
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  16. #41
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    See post 38. If Cummins KNOWS you'll be mating a 350 PLUS to a 3000,they WILL adjust programming to extend tranny life. We have it on our E1 and it works GREAT! Saves on axles too.

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    How much more will a EVS 4000 cost over a EVS 3000 tranny on a new apparatus ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    How much more will a EVS 4000 cost over a EVS 3000 tranny on a new apparatus ?
    I have a spec listing it at $13,250.

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    I was gonna say around 10-12K so I was CLOSE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    See post 38. If Cummins KNOWS you'll be mating a 350 PLUS to a 3000,they WILL adjust programming to extend tranny life. We have it on our E1 and it works GREAT! Saves on axles too.
    Used to be called the "soft shift option" primarily for bus applications so the transmission shift didn't jerk the passengers all over the place. But is commonly applied to fire apparatus as well.

  21. #46
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    Maybe it's just me, but I am not impressed by the Contender/Saber chassis.

    I work on a few and have seen a few "what were they thinking" items on the truck.

    -They use hose barbs and carburetor fuel line to plumb coolant to the turbo. After about a year of this the lines get brittle as dry twigs and snap, making quite the coolant leak.

    -Questionable electrical.. roughly 150 amps junctioned on #10 machine screw studs on the large relay bank on the center tunnel. Has caused no start and warning light issues.

    -Cheap switch gear

    This is just my opinion and observation from a technician's perspective.
    If you can't fix it with a hammer, you have an electrical problem.

  22. #47
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    Back in my former company we have a 2008 Contender. I just saw that barrier doors are available on the Saber chassis now as well. We have them on our E06 Enforcer and it is quite nice. Also you can get a tandem axle on a Saber.

  23. #48
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    Here is the barrier door on the Saber at FDIC.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    We finally drank the kool-aid and switched to Pierce this last purchase (Please insert amazment and condesending comments given my previous rants about Pierce) . We bought 2-pumpers with the following specs with delivery around mid-August:

    Impel chassis with BARRIER DOORS (Ha)
    Cummins ISL9 450hp with Jacobs Brake
    Allison EVS-3000 5-speed automatic
    5-Position David Clark intercom system
    Hale 2000gpm single-stage pumps
    Hale manual MIV's
    Husky Foam system (Class "B" drafting)
    750gwt
    40 gallons Class "A" (to all pre-connects and deck gun)
    Front bumper 2-1/2" discharge
    3-Crosslays
    1-2-1/2" pre-connect
    1000" of 5" LDH with Storz
    600' of 6" LDH with Storz
    Aluminum body with hydraulic ladder rack
    Elkhart remote control deck gun
    3-pull-out trays
    Swing out tool board
    Vertical tool boards
    8-Shelves
    2-110V outlets in 2-compartments
    Custom plastic fabrication for tool mounting, radio holders, etc.
    All LED compartment, hose bed, under body and crosslay lighting
    Whelen LED floodlights (6-PFP-2 and 2-PFP-1)
    200' 12V cord reel (no generator)

    Cost was $527,024.00 each thru HGAC and with 100% pre-payment discount factored in

    Be safe
    Last edited by STATION2; 05-01-2012 at 03:26 PM.
    Stay low and move it in.

    Be safe.


    Larry

  25. #50
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    Well, that's about $200K per rig above my budget. Good thing we don't want much.

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