How do you secure a R.I.T line

[Bilbo]

I know this may be a silly question but I am curious how you secure a RIT line outside a building and if you read on I will explain why.

I work as a Fire Officer in the UK and we use Breathing Apparatus Guidelines to help us search complicated buildings. The line is tied off outside and also should be secured at appropriate points inside the building. The problem is that most modern buildngs do not have tie-off points so the line cannot be used properly.
The problem could be worse as fire crews should have already carried out a familiarisation visit to the building and should note that you may need guidelines. This is then marked on our Operational risk assessment for the premises.
So if there is a fire in the building, the crews can look at the risk ssessment and plans and know that guidelines may be required.
The point is that we don't ensure there are the proper tie off points to use the guidelines properly.
In relation to Health and Safety regulations it could be said that there has not been a suitable and sufficient Risk Assessment caried out by the fire crews in case of fire.

So I am curious as to how you secure your RIT lines off in the USA.
You also may know the buildings you may have to use them in and also may have done famiiarisation visits to the buildings.
If you know the risk previously, do you highlight it to the building owner?

I am currently trying out the following in my Area and would like your opinion on the suggestion.
We have devised a plate that is fixed outside the building that we may have to use guidelines in. it is about six inches by four inches and is fitted outside the main door of the building.
It is secured by spacers so there is a small gap between the plate and the wall. The gap is slightly smaller than the diameter of the Guideline so that when it is pulled into it, the guideline locks in place.
The guideline can then be pulled tightly in between the wall and the plate and wrapped round the plate so it can be tied quickly.
Any message required can be put on the plate such as a Fire Safety message or simply RIT if used in the USA.

The reason for this suggestion is that using guidelines in the UK can be extremely dangerous.
Using them when you cannot secure them properly can be suicidal..!

So if we know we may have to use them, surely we should take every precaution to make sure we can use them safely.

I would appreciate your view on this and wonder if you have the same issues.

[RyanEMVFD]

We use whatever we can find close to the point of entry. Something on the porch works. Heck even the door knob should work.

[LaFireEducator]

My VFD actually carries a large metal stake on several of our engines. In a worst case, the stake is driven into the ground and the line is secured off the stake.

As a rule, we can almost always find something on the exterior of the building to secure the line.

[Bones42]

Tie it around a chief officer. Serves 2 purposes....anchors the line on the outside and anchors the Chief so they aren't walking all around the fire scene.


(ya, i'm joking......mostly)

[Bilbo]

Bones42- I like your style- you may not understand this but I remember once being told " you may have a new *** but remember where your old *** one once sat".
I have the best reminding where I came from, what I am, and what I will always will be. And if they think I am no more than an anchor for a RIT, at least I am useful.
It cheers me up to know we all think the same.

[johnsb]

We have figure 8 knots on the end of all our lines with a carabiner so it's really easy to tie it off to just about anything outside.

[Bilbo]

So you only secure them outside the building?
Do you ever have to tie them off inside a building?

[johnsb]

So you only secure them outside the building?
Do you ever have to tie them off inside a building?

We'd only tie off inside if it were a very large complex like a mall.

[Bones42]

or if a building with multiple floors....we can tie off on the stairway entering that floor.

[Bilbo]

johnsb

What if it was a mall or a very large building- what would you do then?
the point I am trying to make is that in the UK we use a similar device to a RIT line to search buildings and on 99% of occasions we cannot use them properly as we cannot secure them to anything inside the building!

What makes it worse in my opinion, is that we know the types of buildings where we may use them- we even do familiarisation risk assessments on these buildings so fire crews are aware of the risks!

I just think the job is dangerous enough without making it harder for our crews- especially when we can make it safer.

[ChiefKN]

Pretty safe to tie it off to the first arriving police car. He's not going anywhere, once we all get there...

[RyanEMVFD]

Is the rope even long enough for a large building or a mall? I know ours isn't.

[mikeyboy411]

If I understand the question correct, you are seeking advise on how to secure inside the building. I have taught and used almost anything that is fixed and not going to move. Some examples are: A pillar, a forklift, an anchored (cemented in) storage rack, any secure post, door knobs (like was suggested earlier) or anything solid on the inside.

If there is nothing available another option is to use a pendulum technique where the Company Officer or a designee will keep their backs to the wall or anything that can be used to maintain their bearings and each Searcher attaches themselves to the "Anchor" (I have a carabiner that is attached to my turnout coat specifically for this). Each Searcher then swings out and covers as much area as possible. I find this also works well with Wide Rises, aisles of product (shelved, boxes and such) and anytime that a lot of area needs to be covered very quickly. It seems for me that simply resetting the "anchor" and swinging-out takes less time than tying-off, stretching, searching, typing-off, stretching, searching. I am not saying it's not a valid method, because it is but if you are looking to search a large area really quick the "anchor" way is what I have found that works well.

[Bilbo]

Thanks Mikeyboy

This is similar to what we have to do- improvise..!
The point i am trying to make is that we have already done risk assessments in most of these buildings and also decided that we may need Guidelines if there is a fire. the one thing we don't do is to see if we can use them peoperly.
this is where the problems start and the ones at greatest risk are the fire crews.

thanks again for your answer

[mikeyboy411]

Bilbo, just had an idea pop into my noodle while teaching FF Survival and RIC Ops this week. You can use (2) guys hold secure the lines to themselves using the rings/knots by clipping the rings/knots to themselves. By leaving an open ring or a couple of open rings/knots (whatever you use to connect to the RIT Line) and using the (2) personnel as your anchors (connect it to their BAs) it allows you to have an anchor no matter where in the building you are. If you want I'll try to take a picture of what I mean if you don't understand what I mean.

[Bilbo]

Thanks for the suggestion Mikeyboy, I understand exactly what you mean and I know it would work but it would also reduce the usefulness of the 2 personnel as anchors.
the problem we have in the UK is that no-one has any confidence in using guidelines, mainly due to not being able to use them properly !

this means that they would rather not use them and as a result we are seeing firefighter deaths in large warehouses and places where it appears that crews got disorientated and could not get out.

So we now have a culture in the UK where crews have never used guidelines properly at incidents and just say "guidelines are dangerous" because they don't know any better. They have never seen them used properly and safely and while we have this type of equipment on appliances, I believe we should be able to use it, if required without putting a greater risk on the lives of Fire crews.

If we could secure the guidelines properly in the buildings where we may have to use them, this would make it safer for crews to search in an emergency and crews using guidelines properly would increase their confidence in them.
I will keep trying to make them as safe as possible for crews to use but it appears that everyone in the UK knows the issues and is just hoping that if anything goes wrong when crews are using guidelines- it is in someone elses County.

Thanks for all your comments- it is really appreciated.

PS. these comments are my own personal opinions and should not be taken as the views and opinions of my employer.