1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    League City
    Posts
    29

    Default High-rise hose and nozzles

    I am trying to make a case for implementing 2 1/2" with smooth bore or low pressure combi nozzles for our high rise packs. I am curious what other departments are doing?? If you can give me your department name and what your setup is that would be great. Thanks

  2. #2
    MembersZone Subscriber

    Join Date
    Feb 2000
    Location
    Chesapeake Bay
    Posts
    284

    Default

    Search with these two names...Andy Fredericks and Dave Mcgrail. Go on firenuggets.com and register. Lots of their stuff is there. These two men have convinced more than a few departments to use those weapons.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    NFPA 14 should be all you need to justify the 2 1/2" hose and smooth bore nozzle. To people who have any bit of sense anyway.

    That being said we use 1 3/4" hose and 100 PSI fog nozzles.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    yjbrody's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    700

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R1SAlum View Post
    Search with these two names...Andy Fredericks and Dave Mcgrail. Go on firenuggets.com and register. Lots of their stuff is there. These two men have convinced more than a few departments to use those weapons.
    Second finding stuff by Dave McGrail. His book on highrise tactics is top notch.
    Nothing is as unimpressive as someone who is unwilling to learn.

  5. #5
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    League City
    Posts
    29

    Default

    I am well aware of Dave McGrail and his writings along with Andy Fredericks and many others. I also am aware of what NFPA 14 states. My issue is not my education on what my department should be doing, but having the evidence of what other departments are doing. Thus the question of what is your department using.

  6. #6
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,239

    Default

    Since I have never heard of League City, I offer this to the OP.

    Google large size unban departments, which you know have high rise buildings and ask them to give you information on their procedures.

    Some may take 2-1/2 and 1-1/4" tip nozzle and others may use 2" line with a high flowing nozzle. I've seen departments use a 2-1/2" wyes device off the standpipe with duel 2/12" line coming off of that.

    Every department will be doing something; it may not be the same.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  7. #7
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    League City
    Posts
    29

    Default

    League City is where I live but not where I work. I work 80 miles east of Houston. Town of about 120k with 9 High-rises and a multitude of other standpiped buildings. Currently every apparatus carries 2 50' sections of 1 3/4" that we hook onto the back of our packs. Our high-rise bag consists of an akron saberjet fog/smoothie combo nozzle that requires two different operating pressures. I do not agree with this setup and this is why I am trying to get info from as many departments as possible. I know of several departments already that use 2 1/2" with smoothies but I was hoping to hear of some smaller departments that are utilizing this tactic as well. Thanks for the posts.

  8. #8
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    Here's the thing: most departments are not using what they should be. Usually it takes someone getting killed to make a department look at their procedures for something like this. That is why going to industry standards and fire service leaders on the subject may be a better option.

    If the videos on Youtube are any indication, Austin, TX seems to have their A-game together on standpipes. Give them a shout.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  9. #9
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    We are using Elkhart 2 1/2" straight tips with 1 1/8 and 1 1/4" tips. 150' of Mercedes Aqua-flow Plus hose with an inline pressure gauge. We also have a couple of adapters in the pack, dbl male, female to Stortz, etc. This is in Columbus, Oh. We also carry a few hundred feet of high pressure 2 1/2" hose to hook to the stand pipes, and we have 9 or 10 engines with two stage pumps. I've not ever had to use the high rise pack on a fire. (thank goodness)

  10. #10
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    How do you guys like that Mercedes hose? I looked at it when we replaced ours last month. We went with Ponn Conquest.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    footrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Porterdale, GA
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Most of our units make up their own high rise kits with spare 2 1/2" or whatever they feel like using. Those units probably have a high rise or standpiped low rise in their territory, but they give little thought to what will and won't work there.

    Up on the north end of the county, where there are a LOT of high rises of the 15+ floor variety, we've got 4 units with real high rise kits. Here's what's in each of them:

    (2) 75' sections of Key Mag-Lite
    5' section of Key Mag-Lite
    Elkhart 2 1/2" to 2 1/2" gated wye
    Elkhart 2 1/2" long-base shutoff without any handles, with a 188-A 1 1/4" tip
    Elkhart High Rise Drain Elbow
    Elkhart 2 1/2" line gauge
    All the normal high rise tools, like wrenches, etc.

    With our setup, you really need three people if you're using the stairs. One for each section of hose, and one to carry the standpipe bag. The idea is that the elbow helps make connections in tight spaces, like hose cabinets or poorly placed valves. The pump operator pumps the standpipe at the highest pressure needed (basically the highest involved floor and/or highest pressure nozzle/hose combination). The short section of 2 1/2" gets the wye down on the floor, and the two 75' sections make one lightweight 150' length with an 1 1/4" tip. Very simple. The line gauge goes on the side of the wye with the first attack line, and someone opens the nozzle while the wye man opens the wye until the gauge reads the appropriate pressure for the nozzle. Somewhere in the area of 83 psi by our pitot calculations. The next in company brings their high rise hose and kit up, connects into the wye with another gauge and either backs up the first crew or goes to the floor above.

    Lines can be extended for larger floor spaces, or the second crew can just go to the standpipe on the floor above and use all their own equipment in an identical setup as the bottom fire floor. It's pretty flexible, and the uniformity with those 4 units means that up to 4 lines can flow at once.

  12. #12
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by irons33fd View Post
    ... an akron saberjet fog/smoothie combo nozzle that requires two different operating pressures...
    Never heard of the Saberjet requiring two different pressures...but we don't use them so I could very well be wrong.

    And personally, hate the Saberjet nozzles...we went with Akron break-apart nozzles instead. Gives the nozzle operator choice of adjustable pattern or smoothbore by removing the tip. Pumped at same pressure regardless of tip.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Never heard of the Saberjet requiring two different pressures...but we don't use them so I could very well be wrong.

    And personally, hate the Saberjet nozzles...we went with Akron break-apart nozzles instead. Gives the nozzle operator choice of adjustable pattern or smoothbore by removing the tip. Pumped at same pressure regardless of tip.
    The one deathtrap, uh I mean Saberjet, that we had on the truck was a straight 50 PSI OP nozzle in fog or smooth bore. Hated the thing. It came off the truck when we replaced everything last year.

    As far as the break aparts go, are your fog tips 50 PSI too? If not you would have two different operating pressures once you screwed the tip off. Once I started to run out of room in the storage closet because of all of the Akron shutoffs we have with broken plastic parts we switched to Elkhart.

    Footrat, it is good to know someone is doing it right. Mac got you boys all set up I see.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    ...As far as the break aparts go, are your fog tips 50 PSI too? If not you would have two different operating pressures once you screwed the tip off...
    Fog tip is 75/175. Just re-tested our lines with a flow meter last week. 200' 1 3/4" line flows 180gpm at 120psi pump discharge. Take the tip off and we were flowing 190 at same pressure. The line was very easy to move.

    with broken plastic parts
    Don't have any plastic on ours...
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  15. #15
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Fog tip is 75/175. Just re-tested our lines with a flow meter last week. 200' 1 3/4" line flows 180gpm at 120psi pump discharge. Take the tip off and we were flowing 190 at same pressure. The line was very easy to move.

    Don't have any plastic on ours...
    Did you special order them? Every Akron nozzle I have ever seen, old or new, has a plastic bale. The ones on Akron's website do as well.
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  16. #16
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    virginia
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Here are some you tube videos that a Lt. made in my department comparing different types of flows for 2 1/2 and 1 3/4 standpipe racks. Hope this is what you are looking for. It is 5 videos about 2 mins each. Hope the links work you tube is not working right on my computer right now.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/rfdtraining

  17. #17
    Forum Member
    footrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Porterdale, GA
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Footrat, it is good to know someone is doing it right. Mac got you boys all set up I see.

    Yeah. I'm not a big Mac fan. He's a weasel. But he knows his product, and the stuff we got is what we needed. Sandy Springs has even more stuff, but their bag is smaller and lighter. I wish our stuff were lighter. For a highrise kit, the bag with all the appliances sure is heavy. The freaking wye is a boat anchor. And I would REALLY like to have some double female NPT to NH adapters in the bags and on the apparati. The prospect of removing a PRV/PRD without one isn't a good one.

  18. #18
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Posts
    1,158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    How do you guys like that Mercedes hose? I looked at it when we replaced ours last month. We went with Ponn Conquest.
    We've only had it a little over a month, it's okay I guess, nobodies had it long enought to really get a feel for it. Hell, we just came in one day and it was on the truck, no charts, no training. I just love the admin boys. My biggest beotch is that it isn't made in America. It's all color coded, with matching nozzles. No mistake on what goes where, but it makes us look like San Francisco FD with the rainbow colors 'n all. Maybe we'll get uniforms that have FEMS on it too.

  19. #19
    Forum Member
    GTRider245's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Augusta,GA
    Posts
    3,059

    Default

    Mac takes some getting used to. He doesn't sugar coat anything that's for sure. He spent a lot of time with me both via email and over the phone making sure I got what I was looking for. Even took the time to piggy back me on another contract which saved me a lotttttt of money. Even though he works for one company, he never tried to sell us anything and even told us the most expensive nozzle they sell isn't the one most people need.

    I talked with Ward some after his article in FE a few months ago about SSFD's high rise setup. I like what they have going on. The leightweight hose without a doubt makes a difference.

    Your point about PRVs is a good one; is it your SOP to always remove them?
    Career Firefighter
    Volunteer Captain

    -Professional in Either Role-

    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

  20. #20
    Forum Member
    Bones42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Pt. Beach, NJ
    Posts
    10,678

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Did you special order them? Every Akron nozzle I have ever seen, old or new, has a plastic bale. The ones on Akron's website do as well.
    No, you are right the bales are some plastic type stuff. Wasn't thinking about that part...we do have 1 of those that melted a bit but not having issues with them breaking/failing.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  21. #21
    Forum Member
    footrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Porterdale, GA
    Posts
    209

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Mac takes some getting used to. He doesn't sugar coat anything that's for sure. He spent a lot of time with me both via email and over the phone making sure I got what I was looking for. Even took the time to piggy back me on another contract which saved me a lotttttt of money. Even though he works for one company, he never tried to sell us anything and even told us the most expensive nozzle they sell isn't the one most people need.

    I talked with Ward some after his article in FE a few months ago about SSFD's high rise setup. I like what they have going on. The leightweight hose without a doubt makes a difference.

    Your point about PRVs is a good one; is it your SOP to always remove them?
    I've been around Mac a fair amount. He came and trained our entire department when we got our Key Combat Ready and new Elkhart nozzles. I took a hands-on highrise class from him and some guy from up north last year at MAFFC. He's highly opinionated, and he knows his business, but he's a ****** about it, and he always has that slimy salesman-like feel. Heck, the highrise class turned out to be about an hour of real training and an hour of trying to set up and flow the new Hero Pipe. It was a giant waste of time, especially for us regular guys that A) don't work for FDNY or Chicago, where they have $40,000 to spend on one of those things, and B) ARE spending our own time and money hoping for good training. Half the class was spent on a sales pitch for something we didn't need to know even existed.

    We don't have awesome highrise guidelines. We have loose guidelines that will eventually allow for dumb mistakes that will lead to overreaction and retarded guidelines. Our best hope is that we train enough to avoid serious problems. As for removing PRV's, they're not even mentioned in the guidelines. It's something most people in our county have no idea about. Someone one day will probably break off an old FDC and try to pump into the PRV on the bottom floor. Or, we'll find a PRV that we can't get enough flow from, and won't be able to adjust it. People don't realize that THAT is what the giant pipe wrench is for in the highrise bag. It's not for turning valves without wheels. We need ViseGrips for that (which we don't have in any highrise kits). That massive 24" aluminum wrench is so you have the biggest, lightest thing that will open wide enough to get around PRV's and twist them off the pipe. Unfortunately, we have no one that knows that, and no NPT to NH adapters even if we did.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. High Rise hose size for attack
    By GRSIII in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 12-23-2007, 01:42 AM
  2. 2" for High Rise Hose??
    By FatherPierce in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 80
    Last Post: 10-07-2007, 01:47 PM
  3. Lightweight hose for high-rise ops
    By Fireman488 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 01-21-2004, 11:02 PM
  4. High Rise Hose Packs
    By NCFSA03 in forum Fireground Tactics
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-18-2002, 11:53 AM
  5. High Rise Packs/Hose
    By RCFRDFIRE3 in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: 03-25-2002, 07:10 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register