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    Default How is your one man ladder work?


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    Quote Originally Posted by powerhourcoug View Post
    You really think that's "awesome". That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He has no tools and he his now more tired before even starting operations then he would be with a partner. Lets all try and be tough guys so cities can cut more positions scince we o"only need one guy for extension ladders". Now let me see him do that while there's heavy smoke,fire and wires in his way in a ally full of dog sh*t without another crew member to help him place it or let him know if it's the right hieght. Oh and he's not doing that at night either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by philly10 View Post
    You really think that's "awesome". That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He has no tools and he his now more tired before even starting operations then he would be with a partner. Lets all try and be tough guys so cities can cut more positions scince we o"only need one guy for extension ladders". Now let me see him do that while there's heavy smoke,fire and wires in his way in a ally full of dog sh*t without another crew member to help him place it or let him know if it's the right hieght. Oh and he's not doing that at night either.
    Wrong on basicallly every point you attempted to make. If you listen to what Brian is saying, the point of this skill is not to battle low staffing or justify doing more with less; it is to ensure you have more ladders in place on a scene with the staffing you have to work with. If 2 people who previously were committed to a single ladder can now throw 2 in the same amount of time is that not a good thing? This also directly correlates to the understaffed department as well.

    Most of us are not operating in "an alley full of dog shi*t". We are operating in conditions like those in the video. Does it work for everyone? Nope, but what does? Discounting this is as a usable tactic simply becuase it won't work in your own worst case scenario is ignorant.

    And before anyone suggests that this is dangerous and the book says a 24' is a two person throw, go try it. It is completely doable for anyone who is in moderate physiacal condition. You don't have to be the biggest or the strongest, it just takes practice. If you find that this is something that is way over your skill level you may want to consider where else you are lacking and hit the gym.
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    Honestly, the single person 24 foot set and raise should be a Bread and Butter operation that any well trained firefighter should be able to accomplish. I have an old 28 foot fire service ladder at home that I regularly set-up and extend by myself for home repairs. A 28 is for sure heavier than a 24 and yet this 53 year old firefighter can do it safely by myself.

    It has nothing to do with helping the city cut positions, it has to do with the fact that sometimes with multiple victims hanging from multiple windows it may be better and more efficient to have 2-24's put up at the same time by 2 firefighters than one at a time by 2 firefighters.
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    I'm surprised this is seen as innovative. No offense to the individual who wrote the article, but this is how I was taught years ago.

    The alternative to the fly in, is to raise fly in and then flip it. That was what I was taught.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    I thought this was going to be about a one man ladder truck... which doesn't work well at ll

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    Quote Originally Posted by philly10 View Post
    You really think that's "awesome". That might be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. He has no tools and he his now more tired before even starting operations then he would be with a partner. Lets all try and be tough guys so cities can cut more positions scince we o"only need one guy for extension ladders". Now let me see him do that while there's heavy smoke,fire and wires in his way in a ally full of dog sh*t without another crew member to help him place it or let him know if it's the right hieght. Oh and he's not doing that at night either.
    Philly...I take it your personal experiences helped your formulate your opinions? Do you work for a large urban department?

    I wish we had the staffing to allow 2 person work to be a luxury...but in reality a one person throw with a 72# 24' is such an easy and efficient task that anyone who is unable to master it after a few hundred repetitions should probably consider another profession.

    You probably haven't read any of his other work - but in prior articles the topic of carrying tools with the ladder is covered in detail.

    I would pile on to what you have to say, but it appears other people have already got it covered.

    @ Fyred up...I agree, even a 28' should be easy work with a little practice and some technique work.

    @ ChiefKN...you're absolutely right - I'm not trying to present this as an innovation. There seems to be a relative dearth of good instructional videos on one person ladder work online. This is one of the better ones I've come across. I also flip the ladder after placing it as well.

    I still can't believe there are numerous departments out there who deem one person throws to be "dangerous"...crazy.

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    I've been successful in throwing a 24 ft ladder at fires by myself and bringing tools with me. I was in full gear w/ an air pack on. Also have been successful in bringing two ladders to the fire building by myself. Also have thrown a 35 by myself. I'm 5'7 and weight 180 pounds... I'm not the biggest guy there is out there yet w/ a little bit of practice I was able to do it with no problem.

    As for the article the part that interested me the most was the fly in part. I was always told to throw it w/ fly in then turn it. I forgot to turn it in training once and a guy called me out on it so I just sent him the article to tell him I was right.

    Keep training and know how to do the simple tasks in full gear at night w/ 2 hours of sleep in the snow!

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    First of all, I think this is a pretty good video. Obviously the one-man throw is something we all learn in basic firefighter training and is something that we must "test on" in basic training. I think this is a testiment to continuing that training to become more proficient with it. Obviously, when first learning the skill, you aren't expected to do it this well. As far as safety goes, obviously as with anything in the fire service, there can be safety concerns with this as well. As far as people being able to complete the task, I witnessed a smaller framed female complete this task (with a little difficulty) in a safe manner. She was someone with a public safety department that was only going through the fire training because she had to. She didn't really want to, but was still able to...shouldn't we all be able to??

    Of course, there are situations that may arise where it may not be safe for one person to do it by themselves. I'm not going to begin to try to go into examples, I will just use the proverbial "every situation is different." The point is, if you are in a position that you think you need assistance, ask for it. If you can do it without help, by all means do. If you have the LUXERY (many of us don't) of having two people to help with ladders and there is no exigent circumstance saying you need multiple ladders quickly, use two people to be safe--from carrying to clearing the overhead, to raising. Always work as safely as possible when you can. We all know there are times when time is of the essence and we are trying to save someone or our own and sometimes you just do what you have to do...understandable. We risk a lot to save a lot.

    Bottom line, do what you feel comfortable with. If you don't feel comfortable with something, don't do it, but if it is something that can be improved on, don't be complacent--get better!

    Be safe everyone! Everyone goes home!
    Last edited by FloridaFF3; 04-17-2012 at 12:50 AM. Reason: spelling error

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    The one person 24' ladder raise is part of firefighter 1-2...
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    You know, 1 man ladder work is just the reality of todays 3 man truck companies. It seems like the staffing gets less and less and the work stays the same. Im not going to say "screw it" and not throw the ladder just because I dont have the help. My guys are in the building so Im throwing every ladder I have time and the strength to throw. It sucks but its the way it is. Admin can cut what they want but it comes down to those ladders are there for US! I still say the driver of a 3 man truck is the busiest guy on the fire scene. I expect myself and the guys assigned to the truck to throw everything from the 14' straight to the 35' extension by themselves. Now the bangors are a different story. And the author is right. We have got to get out there and take the ladders off the rig and practice so when its game time we have our stuff together. Just my .02

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    Even with our four man truck we throw a single person 24' and a two person 35'. It is about efficiency and being effective.

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    Thumbs up Us Too...............

    Around here, a one man 24 is the norm. We have decent staffing, but if 2 guys (or gals) can each do one at the same time, you get the structure laddered twice as fast. I readily admit that I kinda "Skimmed over" the info, so if I'm repeating something that was covered, Sorry...... My biggest gripe on ladder work is dealing with Halyards. I strongly urge everyone to have the "Free" end of the Halyard cut to the right length and then Spliced around a low rung on the Bed Section. This prevents the occasional unknowing person from securing the Halyard by tying it around TWO Rungs so that it must be untied before raising the ladder. For more years than I want to count, I have always taught people that a Bed Section and a Fly Section should NEVER be tied together. I also find that tying off a loose halyard end while working is a needless waste of the Ladder person's time. Get the Ladder off the rig, throw it, extend it, and move on......
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    ... My biggest gripe on ladder work is dealing with Halyards. I strongly urge everyone to have the "Free" end of the Halyard cut to the right length and then Spliced around a low rung on the Bed Section. This prevents the occasional unknowing person from securing the Halyard by tying it around TWO Rungs so that it must be untied before raising the ladder. For more years than I want to count, I have always taught people that a Bed Section and a Fly Section should NEVER be tied together. I also find that tying off a loose halyard end while working is a needless waste of the Ladder person's time. Get the Ladder off the rig, throw it, extend it, and move on......
    Hey Harve how you been?! I couldn't agree with you more... for some reason the idea of not taking 60 seconds to tie the halyard back to the rung is like insulting someone's mother around here. When throwing a portable ladder by myself, I usually throw it up fly in, brace it against my leg, extend, flip, and toss the halyard under the ladder.
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    The halyard issue should be on the top of the list of things to change in FFI.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue101 View Post
    I don't mind fire rolling over my head. I just don't like it rolling UNDER my a**.

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    Here is what we used for years for portable, aka ground, ladders.




    .
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Thumbs up Nice............

    Cap, is that a Pirsch Trailer with a newer Oren Tractor??.......
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Cap, is that a Pirsch Trailer with a newer Oren Tractor??.......



    1969 Oren Duplex pulling a 1952 Pirsch Senior 100 ft aerial and trailer.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    1969 Oren Duplex pulling a 1952 Pirsch Senior 100 ft aerial and trailer.
    Thank you. I knew that you folks had gone to Oren for some rebuilds back in that era....... By then, getting the men off the sides of the Trailer was becoming a big safety point.
    Last edited by hwoods; 04-26-2012 at 07:59 AM.
    Never use Force! Get a Bigger Hammer.
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    I Refuse to be a Spectator. If I come to the Game, I'm Playing.

    www.gdvfd18.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwoods View Post
    Thank you. I knew that you folks had gone to Oren for some rebuilds back in that era....... By then, getting the men off the sides of the Trailer was becoming a big safety point.


    We replaced the tractors on three rides this way. It was a welcome day for the members to get to ride under the canopy and not on the running board. I've rode the running boards in all kinds of weather. The tillerman always had it rough with nothing to protect him.
    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

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    Glad to see others finding a home in the outstanding FSW crew.
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