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  1. #1
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    Default New Rescue Apparatus

    Alright folks posing a question here. I am not looking for out of this world, crazy ideas here just common sense answers. I have been involved with the FD for 15 years, came from a large, well known department and moved to a smaller, but medium size paid department 170 suppression staff, with a population of avg. 200,000. Been involved with USAR for 14 of those years. We are in the process of specing a heavy rescue. Anyone learned lessons from previous purchases I would LOVE feedback!!! Just to name a few options I am looking to ask for.

    1.) PTO driven vs hydraulic generator - size is of issue as well
    2.) hydraulic pumps mounted vs. Auxillary/ removable
    3.) # of reels- looking at 2-hyd., 2-elec, and 2 Air
    4.) Cascade system- looking at 4 bottle
    5.) light tower
    6.) Chiefs are contemplating a small command Area in cab, it will be large cab spec, i.e. 138"

    I have researched this, but nobody get's it right the first time. This WILL BE a walk around body with coffin storage on top and a ladder no stairwell. Thank you in advance for you comments and experience. rsoup


  2. #2
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    You may not use it much , but having a receiver hitch on all 4 sides with winch plug in - is pretty nice.
    ?

  3. #3
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    yes thanks, on the list including a anchor point for rope rescue

  4. #4
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    As for hyd. units, get an electric simo pump to run the reels, and a portable to manage a second vehicle or off the road too far for the reels to reach.
    With a hydraulic gen., you have flexibility in where you locate it.
    I can't see much advantage in putting a command area in a rescue, it should be in a separate single function vehicle. A small box truck with windows or short bus would be a better vehicle IMHO.
    Cascade, go with 6000 psi bottles, you could do 6 bottles mounted over the rear axles.
    Light tower, absolutely.

  5. #5
    Forum Member FWDbuff's Avatar
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    Anytime anyone comes on here and starts asking about pros and cons of certain options about an upcoming apparatus purchase, I always reply with the following:

    Run, do not walk, to the nearest computer, bookstore, or other source where you can purchase the book "The Fire Apparatus Purchasing Handbook" by William C.Peters, published by Fire Engineering Publications. This book contains a wealth of knowledge about buying apparatus- everything from making the decision to purchasenew vs. refurb, funding, specifications, issuing RFP's, combing through bids, awarding bids, pre-con meetings, inspections, accepting delivery, dealing with warranty claims, etc. It is a MUST HAVE for anyone from the first-time committee member on a small VFD to the head of apparatus for BigCity Fire Department. It will help you to sort through your various questions posed here.
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

  6. #6
    Forum Member Fyrtrks's Avatar
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    1.) PTO driven vs hydraulic generator - size is of issue as well
    2.) hydraulic pumps mounted vs. Auxillary/ removable
    3.) # of reels- looking at 2-hyd., 2-elec, and 2 Air
    4.) Cascade system- looking at 4 bottle
    5.) light tower
    6.) Chiefs are contemplating a small command Area in cab, it will be large cab spec, i.e. 138"
    (1.) By PTO I am assuming you mean direct drive. Most chassis driven generators are run off of a PTO both hydraulic and direct drive. You can also run a direct drive off of a pump gear box as well. A hydraulic you can have it run at all times if you spec it properly. If you do that you really need to have remote control of the line voltage items inside of the cab. I would say 30 KW if you are using 1500 watt lighting all over. Don't forget to look at HID and LED scene lighting and make a true darkness comparison.

    (2.) HRT pumps. I would suggest buying small power units as an option. They will provide more flexibility in the long run. The other option would be a 120-Volt mounted in an out of the way place with control valves near the operator.

    (3.) Reels I would agree with if using chassis air add an extra tank or two and high CFM compressor.

    (4.) CASCADE System 6 bottles with a Sierra Air Booster don't waste money on a Haskel Booster. When cascading fill bottles as normal then when the pump is needed keep cascading using the booster any other way of filling will waste your air as will a Haskel. If you can afford the weight and the money get the ASME bottles, they do not need to be removed for testing. If you need to go with DOT bottles make sure they are easily removable, it would be best to have them in a removable rack.

    (5.) Light Tower make sure it is recessed and make sure to confirm it is stowed before moving the unit. One department close by has spent LOTS of money on repairs of towers they thought were stowed.

    (6.) Command Area I would say put a desk behind the dog house and some filler pads for the SCBA seats that face forward. The desk could slide back.

    I would suggest you have a handle go up and above the top if the body. You can get the Ziamatic pull out ladder and make a nice easy climbing ladder.

    Make double darn sure your stuff ie: rope rescue bags do not have to be CRAMMED into the coffin compartments. A rescue that is close by here to me has small compartments and that is a HUGE problem when you need the stuff out out in a hurry.
    Last edited by Fyrtrks; 04-23-2012 at 08:25 PM.
    Fyrtrks

  7. #7
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    I think FDNY has it dialed in with their trucks. Do not put a your self in a bind,have a small 2 k genny on the apparatus that can be use remotely,same with the rescue tools. Look in walk in rescue,the inside area in back can double as a rehab and or command.

  8. #8
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    Consider logical, usable layout, but also consider weight distribution. We have a truck that has all the cascade, extrication, and generator equipment on the right side of the truck, causing some wear and handling issues that had to be fixed after the fact.

    Our last truck was speced with rear air suspension and has the cascade bottles standing upright along the foward wall of the body, which seems to have helped the weight distribution a great deal..

  9. #9
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    Will this vehicle be the primary response for MVA's with entrapment? Or do other apparatus carry extrication tools and this is for primarily for technical rescue with the ability for extrication if needed?

  10. #10
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    Thank you all for the great information. FWDBuff, thanks for that outlet to research. Fyrtrks, thank you, I was really looking for that input for past experience in what to do and what not to do. This will be a primary response vehicle for all fires, MVA's, Tech. Rescues, and any other "major" incident to do with manpower. The department has never had a dedicated rescue, and with the recent past large incidents in and around our location the need has been seen with a little nudging by some of the line staff. Thanks again any other ideas would be greatly appreciated.

  11. #11
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    A couple of other things to add. A winch that will go into a front and rear reciever and electrical plugs and both recievers gives you a front and rear winch capability. And our rescue has a 30 gal. Tri-Max CAFS extinguisher with a 100' reel. It gives the rescue enough firefighting capability to handle most vehicle fires or provide fire suppresion coverage for extrications.

  12. #12
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    The dept I was on had had a heavy rescue with a Wil Burt tower and an Engine with a smaller CL unit. We had one issue with the WB which they flew a tech out to us within 2 days at NO cost to us. I prefer the CL unit. I think it operated smoother and quicker. Hydraulics froze on us one time when it was -30 but we just tilted the beams down and it warmed up!!! Good luck with your purchase!!!!

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