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Thread: ALF Rumor?

  1. #26
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    There haven't been a lot of new alfs delivered recently. Since they filed bankruptcy and burned a lot of departments with slow or no delivery.
    Yes there are a lot of newer used alfs on the market right now. That in itself should give a hint.
    Ask yourself this: Would you spend over half a million to buy an aerial truck from a company with their recent history, knowing that you will have to live with that decision for a long time?

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    Just because their website hasn't been updated doesn't mean that they are going out of business.
    I am told that the web site should be changed and updated within the next month or so.

    Actually, they have been delivering a lot off apparatus lately. Not to mention, currently they have over 24 orders for new trucks right now and have recently obtained several larger contracts such as the Philadelphia Tiller contract, Ventura County Calf. which is replacing up to 20 apparatus, the Buffalo City Contract, and they are now building chassis for Smeal. Plus they are in the running for three more larger city contracts.

    I don't think that they are going anywhere right now. Ever since ALF was purchased off of Freightliner, a lot of the staff from the original ALF came back and their new Vice President came over from Pierce. I know ALF got a bad rap from their bankruptcy but they just delivered our new rescue pumper back in February and they were outstanding to work with.
    Last edited by Chief143; 05-29-2012 at 05:15 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief143 View Post
    Just because their website hasn't been updated doesn't mean that they are going out of business.
    I am told that the web site should be changed and updated within the next month or so.

    Actually, they have been delivering a lot off apparatus lately. Not to mention, currently they have over 24 orders for new trucks right now and have recently obtained several larger contracts such as the Philadelphia Tiller contract, Ventura County Calf. which is replacing up to 20 apparatus, the Buffalo City Contract, and they are now building chassis for Smeal. Plus they are in the running for three more larger city contracts.

    I don't think that they are going anywhere right now. Ever since ALF was purchased off of Freightliner, a lot of the staff from the original ALF came back and their new Vice President came over from Pierce. I know ALF got a bad rap from their bankruptcy but they just delivered our new rescue pumper back in February and they were outstanding to work with.
    Chief143, good luck with your new rescue pumper,how long did your department wait for the new apparatus to be delivered. And also do you have a local ALF sales & service dealer in your local area, or was your purchase factory direct? How many other buiders bid on your pumper!
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 05-29-2012 at 06:58 PM.

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    Hey thanks for the candid responses.

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    My only advice is before you buy an ALF unit, you visit their plant. I will tell you it is enormous and over the top, but it is empty. They do have roughly 20 trucks on order, but most of those are from their loyal customers such as Philly, Ventura and Buffalo. In my opinion, ALF builds the best ladder in the industry, but unless you are willing to wait a long time for it, be careful.

    I could rattle off everything I have been told by friends that work there, but it all relates to no money to buy parts for units. Also, they are losing a lot of employees who are nervous and bolting for other jobs. The end product is great, but Tilton is tired of losing money and has cut off funds.

    If you want to talk to a department that has trucks on order with ALF, my advice is to contact York County, SC. From what I understand, not only are their units late, but ALF doesn't have the money to buy the major parts. Don't take my word...call them. If you do have the guts to buy one, my advice is this: 1) Get a performance bond 2)Don't prepay 3) Have a backup plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Chief143, good luck with your new rescue pumper,how long did your department wait for the new apparatus to be delivered. And also do you have a local ALF sales & service dealer in your local area, or was your purchase factory direct? How many other buiders bid on your pumper!
    It took 6 months to deliver...

    It was purchased factory direct but they recently took on a dealer about 15 mins away from us to do sales and service...

    There were 3 bidders (Crimson / Ferrara / ALF)...
    I'm sorry if you don't like my opinion, however I really don't care...

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    Chief143.its good to hear from a satisfied alf costomer,reading some of these posts from ''other manufactuers or dealers'' is amusing.with the apparatus market being in a slump due to the economy, you would think they would put thier greed aside and promote jobs in this country.dealings that buffalo had with some manufactuers or thier reps only goes to show how low some will go to get business.i have no connection with alf or any other manufactuer,just sick of ''people'' trying to slow the alf comeback for thier own gains.with this economy any business could find themselves in trouble,lets think positive

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    Just curious, because I honestly am not sure....but hasn't ALF "been on the comeback" for a few years now?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOWERLADDER124 View Post
    Just sick of ''people'' trying to slow the alf comeback for thier own gains.with this economy any business could find themselves in trouble,lets think positive
    I don't think anyone here has any bad will for ALF and it's "COMEBACK" They seem to be able to turn the customers away just fine all by themselves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOWERLADDER124 View Post
    Chief143.its good to hear from a satisfied alf costomer,reading some of these posts from ''other manufactuers or dealers'' is amusing.with the apparatus market being in a slump due to the economy, you would think they would put thier greed aside and promote jobs in this country.dealings that buffalo had with some manufactuers or thier reps only goes to show how low some will go to get business.i have no connection with alf or any other manufactuer,just sick of ''people'' trying to slow the alf comeback for thier own gains.with this economy any business could find themselves in trouble,lets think positive
    We've owned Alfs in the past, when they WERE Alfs. While I like their ladder,their recent performance along with our neighbors recent experiences would preclude us for considering them for future purchase, at least at this time

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    Since this is "ALF RUMOR", is there any truth to ALF having a "For Lease" sign planted at the LTI facility? I went to the website to see if there was any announcement because I know they talked about closing it a few years ago....but the website was down.....again. Pay your bills people!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGAME View Post
    Since this is "ALF RUMOR", is there any truth to ALF having a "For Lease" sign planted at the LTI facility? I went to the website to see if there was any announcement because I know they talked about closing it a few years ago....but the website was down.....again. Pay your bills people!
    Yes, the "For Lease" sign has been up for several weeks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadOff View Post
    Yes, the "For Lease" sign has been up for several weeks.
    It is very hard for any business to make ends meet these days, first the owners of ALF need to start selling some apparatus and building some apparatus so they have the funds to pay there bills on time. They need to start paying there parts supply companies so they can finish the trucks that are under contract to build, the best thing for them to do is sell off ALF/LTI, to a apparatus builder that is in the good shape money wise and hope for the best !

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    I only know of one apparatus builder that is in good shape!!! So who would they sell too?

    Chief1ff

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    Here's your sign...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chief1FF View Post
    I only know of one apparatus builder that is in good shape!!! So who would they sell too?

    Chief1ff
    Maybe, Ferrara, Smeal, Kme, Toyne, Custom, Marion, Etc !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    Maybe, Ferrara, Smeal, Kme, Toyne, Custom, Marion, Etc !
    Good point. Smeal and KME are basically family owned and financially very sound. I am not that familiar with Toyne's ownership but they have always seemed to be based in reality rather than living on projections. Marion has always been pretty solid.

    I doubt that any of those companies base everything on projections of future business. Publicly held corporations just don't have the same attitude as a company where the owners are there everyday and give a crap about the product, customer, and employees. It's all about the balance sheet and the monthly P&L's. I firmly believe that Pierce is still riding on the reputation of Doug Ogilvie. That one guy was the heart and soul of Pierce for many years. I was affiliated with Pierce in the absolute worst of the Carter years and inflation with crippling interest rates. Pierce didn't even hiccup. Oshkosh is standing by Pierce now, but it just isn't the same since they are just a division of a much larger corp.

    Most of those previous mentioned companies are located in small communities and the owners have a genuine commitment in their community due to the fact they are important employers. One of these companies has more employees than their home town has citizens and the others are huge in their home town as well. If you go to Ocala or Appleton, the builders are known but not the foundation of the town. Most owners do things a little different when the people they went to school with depend on them for a living.

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    [QUOTE=firepundit;1331306]Good point. Smeal and KME are basically family owned and financially very sound. I am not that familiar with Toyne's ownership but they have always seemed to be based in reality rather than living on projections. Marion has always been pretty solid. QUOTE]

    Excerpted from Toyne's web site:

    "In 1942, Gilbert "Gib" Toyne, the owner of a successful blacksmith shop in the thriving agricultural center of Breda, Iowa, was asked by the community of Schleswig, IA to put together a fire truck body."

    "For years, Gib and his crew had been repairing fire trucks built by others..."

    "Family owned since Roger Schwabe, a long-time Toyne employee purchased the company from Gib in 1978; president Mike Schwabe and vice president Bill Schwabe, Roger's sons, now head the firm."

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    I would think that any apparatus builder out there in the fire service who is interested in the American Lafrance name, would only purchase the business for the " LTI " aerials and would not be interested in building or selling a chassis product with the eagle name plate at this time!

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    If you check out the phone number,you will see it belongs to the owner of the property. Alf moving to another location makes alot of sense.being on the same property as crimson or what ever they call themselves today.is like gimbles moving in with macy's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    I would think that any apparatus builder out there in the fire service who is interested in the American Lafrance name, would only purchase the business for the " LTI " aerials and would not be interested in building or selling a chassis product with the eagle name plate at this time!
    The American Lafrance name died years ago. There has been a company building trucks under that name since...but they are not "American Lafrance" trucks.
    CaptOldTimer and Rescue101 like this.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    The American Lafrance name died years ago. There has been a company building trucks under that name since...but they are not "American Lafrance" trucks.
    There hasn't been a true American LaFrance piece of apparatus built for many years. Probably not since the company left Elmira! Figgy's company tried by missed the target. A lot of look-a-likes and copies of what someone wanted you to think was AmLaFrance!
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    The American Lafrance company or brand name could be turned around with the right buyer who has fire service truck building in there history,the name is not dead yet, someone may save them for the right price tag ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LT2410 View Post
    Here's your sign...

    Attachment 22083
    Well, ALF-LTI won't be moving up to their former facility in Lebanon PA (the former Aerial Innovations facility and later the ALF Aerials (LTI) rebuild/service center), they sold that facility about 6 months ago. My buddy next door (works for Crimson/Spartan ERV and a former long time employee of LTI) told me the land lord has had it with ALF not paying rent on time and missing payments altogether. ALF has to the end of July to vacate the facility. The question is not just where are they moving to but is their really a move planned at all. The end may be near. What's left of their workforce in Ephrata are looking for other jobs.

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    It is a shame that a few Stock Holders and a CEO, can purchase a fire apparatus builder and flush them down the toilet in a few years, and hard working people in the plants are the one's that must pay the price and become jobless. Maybe the managementof ALF/LTI will take a vacation to a island somewhere, just like the bankers did in the Gov bailout ?
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 06-19-2012 at 08:19 PM.

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