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Thread: ALF Rumor?

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    Default ALF Rumor?

    Has anyone heard of ALF filing for bankruptcy or their production factory in PA being closed down in the last month?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MFDE19 View Post
    Has anyone heard of ALF filing for bankruptcy or their production factory in PA being closed down in the last month?
    If you haven't already done so, check out the Smeal/ALF? thread (starting at entry #20) for some news on the status of ALF.
    Last edited by LeadOff; 05-09-2012 at 12:45 PM.

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    This is starting to get sickening.persons posting this kind of rumors for one reason or another.without facts.alf is on the same property as crimsom in pa,with the crimson name being finished,perhaps what is happening at crimson is being confused with alf lti. On the same site.alf is alive and growing.lets get our facts straight,before we start to assume things and start rumors

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    Hey TowerLadder 124...if ALF is growing, how come they have 1 new delivery posted on their website...THIS YEAR!

    Anyone who knows anyone who recently worked or works at ALF will tell you they have 20+ fire trucks sitting in their backlog with no money to build them. It is a smoke and mirrors company. Lynn Tilton has cut them off. They are now on their own and they can't get funding. The best thing that can happen to my friends that work there is for Tilton to sell it.

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    I know for a fact that alf is building rigs ,and they never stopped,even during reorganization. The planted comments from misinformed sources for one reason or another in these tough economic times,serves no purpose.remarks about no new rigs on the website does not mean anything,presently i cannot comment on things i know..but time will tell.lets see what shows up at harrisburg,and then a bigger surprise in wildwood in september

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    So let me get this straight- you complain about people on this website reporting rumors about a specific company, and then you go and spread a rumor about something big in Wildwood? Kettle, meet pot.

    If it is going to be introduced at Wildwood it can't be that big of a deal. Not taking away from the show or NJ firefighters but it is one of the last shows of the year. Anyone who is introducing something has already done so at one of the bigger shows, such as FDIC or FRI which is held just a few weeks before Wildwood.

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    ALF will not be here in September, at least not under Tilton. They don't have the money to sustain that long. I would disagree on your comment about new deliveries. If I were running a company that was known for poor delivery, I would do everything in my power to update my new deliveries. There were over 100 departments that were told by ALF that they were not going to build their trucks when they went into bankruptcy and many of these departments provided ALF the slack up until the rug was pulled out from under them. It is happening all over again and those Chiefs need to be aware. Tilton uses bankruptcy to protect herself and doesn't care about her customers who trust in the company. As for the employees, they all are hoping for new management...and I hope they get it.

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    I'm not going to get involved in the rumor mill, but I can state for fact that ALF's "big" presence at FDIC 2012 was not as it seemed. I can't remember exactly...but, if you looked in the doors, of the 4 or so trucks in the booth, one was a 2007 model Metropolitan Telesqurt that had received a recent Eagle fascia; one was between a 2007 to 2010 model; and one, I believe, was a 2011 model. Just one had a manufacturered date of 2012 and it was a demo model LTI product.

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    It would be nice if any fire departments who purchased a ALF product in the last year or so could post there apparatus on this tread so veiwers can see for them selfs. Anyone could say this, or that about a company but where is the proof. Here in central New Jersey, I have not seen one new American Lafrance apparatus delivered this year to any local fire departments. Most of the larger city fire departments here in New Jersey that had ALF apparatus, are now buying from Crimson/Spartan and will not take a chance ordering from a company that may go under any day now!
    Last edited by Woodbridge; 05-12-2012 at 07:51 PM.

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    Let us not forget, regardless of our flavor of Kool-Aid (this week) that these are American jobs that are so trivially being discussed. We bought an ALF/LTI in 2006 and can't complain, and while the company has seemed to take a corporate turn for the worse, we met a lot of great people working in the Ephrata factory. While I know many have left over the past 6 years due to the tumultuous corporate decisions, there still are more American workers, many who are also Brother firefighters who do good work and have to live this corporate environment every day. So while many of us lament for the days of old when ALF was truly a great brand, let's not hope for their demise. Let's hope for some other corporate change that will keep these people on the line building fire apparatus and helping keep the market honest.
    Last edited by RFDACM02; 05-10-2012 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Keyboard caused misspelled words

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFDACM02 View Post
    Let us not forget, regardless of our flavor of Kool-Aid (this week) that these are American jobs that are so trivially being discussed. We bought an ALF/LTI in 2006 and can't complain, and while the company has seemed to take a corporate turn for the worse, we met a lot of great people working in the Ephrata factory. While I know many have left over the past 6 years due to the tumultuous corporate decisions, there still are more American workers, many who are also Brother firefighters who do good work and have to live this corporate environment every day. So while many of us lament for the days of old when ALF was truly a great brand, let's not hope for their demise. Let's hope for some other corporate change that will keep these people on the line building fire apparatus and helping keep the market honest.
    Very well stated. What seems to be ailing ALF is the same thing that's ailing many corporations: Skilled, honest, hard-working people busting their tails on the line while slobs in suits make a mess of things. And of those two groups, the wrong one gets the pink slip and the wrong one gets the golden parachute.

    I think what the ALF situation comes down to is management's inability to provide the type of operation that deserves the legendary ALF reputation. All the suits were concerned about was how to cash in on that name, and they've made it very hard for the market to accept their product.
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    Buffalo fire took delivery of 5 pumpers and 2 midship towers in 2011.we will take delivery of 2 more pumpers and 1 more midship towers towards the end of the year. The rigs have given us great service as has alf.parts are no problem.one of our older midships as well as one of our pumpers were involved in accidents,the midship was repaired in house and the pumper is at alf being repaired.we had no problem getting parts to repair the rig.

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    Lets wait and see.

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    I don't consider a fact a rumor

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    Quote Originally Posted by TOWERLADDER124 View Post
    Buffalo fire took delivery of 5 pumpers and 2 midship towers in 2011.we will take delivery of 2 more pumpers and 1 more midship towers towards the end of the year. The rigs have given us great service as has alf.parts are no problem.one of our older midships as well as one of our pumpers were involved in accidents,the midship was repaired in house and the pumper is at alf being repaired.we had no problem getting parts to repair the rig.
    If Buffalo recieved trucks from ALF and they have performed well then the city is certainly in the minority. There were many fire departments who waited years for delivery only to never get the truck at all. And let's not forget the departments who lost money that had been prepaid to ALF only to get screwed in the end.

    I don't know of many departments that would be willing to give ALF a chance after the well documented issues they have had in the past. Their distribution is almost non- exisitant which makes it very easy for the competition to make sure any bid from them would not be acceptable to the fire department.

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    Fact? Fact: ALF is going to die, it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of WHEN. Lynn Tilton has clearly stated several times in written interviews that she made a mistake purchasing ALF and in so many words, she could care less what happens to it. She also stated her intent to "at some point break it up and sell off the assets to gain what she could from what was left of ALF." They have already been served with eviction papers by the property owners of the SC plant, thats a fact- you can google the court case and come up with the documents. As someone previously stated, the current management (who dont know a firetruck from a trashtruck nevermind the fact they dont know how to build one) thinks that they can ride on ALF's name and previous reputation as one of the big names in fire apparatus.

    The beginning of ALF's end was when Jim Hebe got his hands on it. This is like watching a beloved relative on life support die a slow, painful death. I wish sompone would just pull the plug and save what little dignity ALF has left. A few years from now we will all be talking about ALF as we talk about Hahn, WLF, Maxim, AF........the list goes on.
    Last edited by FWDbuff; 05-12-2012 at 01:19 PM.
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    The company name & business needs to be sold again, but this time to a person or person's that know the fire service. maybe they can merge with another builder and just sell there aerial products !

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    Maybe TOWERLADDER124 is a "friend" of Lynn Tilton! LTI is ALF's biggest asset or at least whatever is left of it. Most of the LTI workers are gone (many are working on the other side of the parking lot in Ephrata) but the intellectual property and the manufacturing equipment would be of value. Maybe Ferrara would buy it so they could start building their own aerials in LA rather than buy them from Smeal.

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    Leadoff...I agree....LTI is the main value of ALF. The garbage truck side had value, but now that International is coming out with their own truck, there is another major competitor and ALF's deliveries in that area have fallen as well.

    The bigger picture here is what does Lynn Tilton want to do with the company? The company reorganized in 2008...it's 2012! Take a look at this part of a New York Magazine article on Tilton in 2011.

    These companies, like the fire-truck-maker American LaFrance, are more like zombies than functioning businesses—they can make their monthly interest payments, but they appear more likely to default than ever pay back their principle.

    Truth be told, ALF is a small part of the Patriarch business and because its has very little chance of providing Tilton a profit...why would she throw money at it?

    There is one huge difference between ALF and the others (Pierce, EOne, Spartan, etc)...ALF is littered with debt. Most people I have talked to say Tilton has invested well over $100 million since buying the company.

    So my point is this. While the remaining employees at ALF may have great intentions...they have no control. Employees can't contribute millions in funds to get parts to build trucks. Tilton is not going to do it. If the plan is to keep the doors open with smoke and mirrors games, then someone, or some department is going to get burned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    A few years from now we will all be talking about ALF as we talk about Hahn, WLF, Maxim, AF........the list goes on.
    Don't forget that Ahrens-Fox nameplates are floating around out there with HME!

    To add to your list of sad departures, try Oren, FMC/John Bean, Grumman, Allegheny, Howe, Indiana, American, Young, Pirsch, Jaco... What makes this doubly sad for me is that I have fought fire off trucks with most of those names.

    By the way, am I correct that Grumman took over FMC, and then KME took over Grumman? And is Ranger still out there?

    I have this book, by the way. Great coffee table item for the station. It might feature someone you know...
    I am more than just a serious basketball fan. I am a life-long addict. I was addicted from birth, in fact, because I was born in Kentucky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF View Post
    Very well stated. What seems to be ailing ALF is the same thing that's ailing many corporations: Skilled, honest, hard-working people busting their tails on the line while slobs in suits make a mess of things. And of those two groups, the wrong one gets the pink slip and the wrong one gets the golden parachute.
    ...
    Yes that's all that is wrong in American manufacturing. No problem with having endless gov't agencies and bureaus as your ever helpful "partner". No proplems from Gov't forcing paying a $15/hr drone $80k+ a year so he can support a squad of union thugs who then think they run the company. etc etc etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    Yes that's all that is wrong in American manufacturing. No problem with having endless gov't agencies and bureaus as your ever helpful "partner". No proplems from Gov't forcing paying a $15/hr drone $80k+ a year so he can support a squad of union thugs who then think they run the company. etc etc etc.
    I didn't say that's ALL that is wrong. Quit putting words in my mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireinfo10 View Post
    ...from Gov't forcing paying a $15/hr drone $80k+ a year so he can support a squad of union thugs ...
    Unions and their pay scales are definitely not a fault of Government.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    Unions and their pay scales are definitely not a fault of Government.
    nooo, not at all.....and the Teamsters really didn't just endorse Nobama for a second time.......
    "Loyalty Above all Else. Except Honor."

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    Hey, first time poster.
    I don't want to seem condescending or anything like that but could we please prevent this thread from dissolving into another pointless argument?

    Does anybody here have any sources to back up their rumors? A news article or some testimonials from FDs that have recently purchased from or dealt with ALF.

    My department is looking at used Aerials from the mid-2000s and their seem to be a glut of ALF/LTIs on the market and we need to know if they are any good.

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