Ladder Truck Purchase

[LeadOff]

There was a new Toyne dealer listed on the Toyne website yesterday in your area.

Interesting! It looks like another round of "musical chairs" for the local fire apparatus dealers is underway. The new Toyne dealer in the area is Chesapeake Hook and Ladder Co. who is (or was?) the current Seagrave dealer for the Eastern Shore area of MD. Seagrave still lists them as such but Seagrave's website only changes a couple of times a year so who knows. I tried to call Chesapeake to confirm but nobody answered the phone in the office. Maybe taking a long lunch. Some of the fire truck dealers around here change hats quite often and it get's interesting to hear them quickly change their spin to now praise a builder that they were bad-mouthing only weeks ago!

[FWDbuff]

Roofjockey- Toyne will be at both Firehouse Expo and "down the ocean." Why not go see them and talk to them about what they could do to satisfy your concerns about service/warranty issues? Like I said, speak with National Sales Manager Mike Watts or Pres. Mike Schwabbe- tell them "Son of Sam" sent you.

[npfd801]

Son of Sam... LMAO.

[FWDbuff]

Son of Sam... LMAO.

That goes back to when I was about 10 years old......lol

[roofjockey]

Thank you to everyone who commented, any and all information is helpful and appreciated. To FWD you are very passionate about Toyne, we as a committee would like to consider them but without a local track record and legit local representation it is difficult to convince the committee much less the entire membership. We will have committee members at Harrisburg, "Down the Ocean and the Fire Expo, to keep an open mind before we make our final recommendations and tweek our documents for bidding.

[FWDbuff]

Thank you to everyone who commented, any and all information is helpful and appreciated. To FWD you are very passionate about Toyne, we as a committee would like to consider them but without a local track record and legit local representation it is difficult to convince the committee much less the entire membership. We will have committee members at Harrisburg, "Down the Ocean and the Fire Expo, to keep an open mind before we make our final recommendations and tweek our documents for bidding.

Eh...I wouldnt call it "passionate." They have been around since 1942- built a great truck for us, and they build a fine product and wish Departments in the East would give them a chance. I am certainly not a businessman by any means of the term; but I suspect that without more sales a dealership/repair facility (or even a contracted one) is not in the cards at this time. We were hesitant, but with the proper wording in our specs and their contract, we were able to overcome the lack of dealerships/authorized repair centers- not that we have needed them at all.

[LeadOff]

Eh...I wouldnt call it "passionate." They have been around since 1942- built a great truck for us, and they build a fine product and wish Departments in the East would give them a chance. I am certainly not a businessman by any means of the term; but I suspect that without more sales a dealership/repair facility (or even a contracted one) is not in the cards at this time. We were hesitant, but with the proper wording in our specs and their contract, we were able to overcome the lack of dealerships/authorized repair centers- not that we have needed them at all.

FWD - I really think that companies like Toyne and Smeal could potentially do well in this area but they must establish good, reputable dealerships to represent them. Recently, they have established dealerships in the area BUT they set them up with certain individuals they are well known around these parts that nobody in their right minds wants to have anything to do with. That's the real problem. In contrast, a little regional company like Custom Fire that most everybody around here (to include me) had never heard of lined up with what looks like a strong dealership (Red Storm) that is run by a couple of guys that used to be associated with the former big Pierce dealership (now under a different name) in the area. This is what Toyne and Smeal needs instead of having a "Sanford and Sons" type dealer in the area.

[TOWERLADDER124]

The rosenbauer cab has not been around long enough to draw a conclusion.hear pros and cons on it,but those comments are premature.give them a chance ,before passing judgement.spartan crimson did not take over the lti plant.they are leasing part of the property, i think they felt that alf lti was not gonna be around due to reorganization.,and they would take over the entire complex. So now crimson name is gone and alf lti is still building one of the best ladders in the market.as far as years in business the crimson ladder is only a child.contrary to previous articles written,buffalo ny was not happy with crimson ladder and tower, i am not just making this up,as some forum members like to do.,check with the master mechanic of the bfd shops. Thats why they purchased 2 midship alf lti,s last year and ordered another one due to be delivered the end of this year.choose wisely in your ladder truck purchase,once you bought it,it will be something you will have to live with for the life of the apparatus.

[FyredUp]

TOWERLADDER124,

Why do you care what brand of ladder truck someone buys? Frankly, I wouldn't touch an ALF with a 10 foot pole right now. Their future is too dang uncertain for me and I wouldn't want an orphan that the warranty is no good on if they go out of business.

As strongly as you are pushing them I have to believe you either work directly for ALF or a dealer for ALF.,

[93Cobra]

Why not spec a mid-mount aerial? From my experience, it is much easier to use, les picky with vehicle placement, quicker to deploy and operate, and makes more sense from a support standpoint. Also, one key point is that it is safer to use since ease of getting on/off is not at the rear of the truck with the swivel, cylinders, and lines all in the way. I used a Smeal 100' truck a few weeks back and it was absolutely terrible in that respect. It took too long to set up and the safety of getting up to the ladder was awful.
I have set-up many mid-mounts before and my faith will always be with mid-mount ladders... regardless of manufacturer.

[ffp20]

Why hello Mr Sutphen...where ya been? I have to ask: have you EVER actually used any aerial device at any REAL fires???? what you said above makes no sense to me.

[93Cobra]

I am not related to Sutphen. There are other mid-mount manufacturers out there. Yes, I have used on fire scenes and the rear mount trucks were difficult to use and I did not like the way you have to get on/off the truck access the ladder.

[ffp20]

I meant mr sutphen in a sarcastic way. I've operated all types, they all do the job. they ALL have their quirks. Learn them all, get to know what they are and are not capable of and make them work. as far as getting on and off the truck to access the ladder, dont they all work that way?

[Woodbridge]

I meant mr sutphen in a sarcastic way. I've operated all types, they all do the job. they ALL have their quirks. Learn them all, get to know what they are and are not capable of and make them work. as far as getting on and off the truck to access the ladder, dont they all work that way?

I think he is trying to say that you do not have to walk across the whole ladder to get to the tip or bucket on a midmount aerial. just need to enter from the side of the apparatus.

[ffp20]

I think he is trying to say that you do not have to walk across the whole ladder to get to the tip or bucket on a midmount aerial. just need to enter from the side of the apparatus.

ok. yes, most midmount buckets u can access from the sides of the body. no real reason to access the tip of a stick when its down. that in and of itself is, to me, not the sole reason to choose that design.

[93Cobra]

My most recent experience was on a Smeal 100' truck with a climbing ladder. The truck was set-up, and operations had to be run off the back of the truck. in order to get from the ground up to the aerial control station, it was extremely awkward and had to climb around the lift cylinders. I am spoiled by getting on and off mid-mount trucks to access the aerial control boxes on them. The mid-mounts were much easier and safer to access the aerial control station... again, just my opinion and comfort level.

[FIREMECH1]

^^^^ In other words, you climbed the wrong ladder to get to the controls??

I've got Sutphens, E-Ones, and Smeals. Oh yeah, a Toyne as well. As you, I also have to climb the ladders, work the ladders, etc. Maybe it's just me, but I can work all of them the same. More than likely, your spec people don't know what the heck they are doing, if it is that much of a problem to get to the aerial controls.

FM1

[RFDACM02]

it was extremely awkward and had to climb around the lift cylinders.

Did the truck only have one access ladder at the rear? When you rotate away from center you generally have to choose the best of two ladders to access the turntable. In our case we removed the access ladders from the officer's side in favor of more compartment space, but this does require you to climb either the rear ladder to access the turntable or climb directly to the lift cylinder area when the rotation is toward the drivers side, and it's a MM.

There are times when a MM is a disadvantage. One big one we see responding to neighboring towns is long driveways. With a rear mount you can shoot the stick at a far lower angle over the cab/front of the truck, where as a MM can't go as low, requiring you back in or don't bother. This issue also can happen with dead end streets and alleys. And lastly (at the moment) when you have power lines on the fire side of the street a RM is usually easier to place the turntable under them to gin aerial access than a MM. The above being said, we're very pleased with our MM, but you have to fully account for limitations when making choices that cost nearly a million dollars.