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Thread: Why are you voting for whoever for President?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm sure other posters will tell you I am always up for discussion.
    Again, sorry it took so long to respond. Cookies (something before now I thought were just something good to eat) on my computer were preventing me from signing in.

    A few questions:
    Do you support legal prostitution such as in areas of Nevada?
    Do you personally believe there was a war on women?
    Given their history, other than great propaganda, how are Democrats the party of black people?

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    A wonderful State of the Union confirming that we are going to try to suck even more revenue from the rich and decrease jobs in the lower-paying sectors by increasing the minimum wage.

    And we continue down the "Highway to Hell" .....
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    A wonderful State of the Union confirming that we are going to try to suck even more revenue from the rich and decrease jobs in the lower-paying sectors by increasing the minimum wage.

    And we continue down the "Highway to Hell" .....
    Speak for yourself. The economy is starting to get better.

    Jobless Claims Drop to 341K

    Now I know all that high falutin' writing doesn't always make itself to the sleepy little burgs in Bossier Parish. But here is why that number is important.

    When jobless claims fall below the 400,000 threshold, that is considered evidence of an improving jobs landscape, and when the number drops below 370,000, it suggests jobs are being created rather quickly. The US has been below the 370,000 threshold eight of the last 10 weeks.

    So if we're on a "highway to hell," it's one great ride for some of us. It really sounds like you must have missed out on the opportunity to cash in on it. Might be because you were too busy ranting about taxes while living off the taxpayer. I sure hope you're not posting from a work supplied computer while on the clock. There have been some very high profile cases where public employees have been terminated for doing that. And then you'd probably hate the government even more when you have to apply for Food Stamps and unemployment benefits.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Again, sorry it took so long to respond. Cookies (something before now I thought were just something good to eat) on my computer were preventing me from signing in.

    A few questions:
    Do you support legal prostitution such as in areas of Nevada?
    Do you personally believe there was a war on women?
    Given their history, other than great propaganda, how are Democrats the party of black people?
    I'm more interested in fiscal policy than social issues.

    Given their voting patterns, the majorities of women and African Americans believe their contemporary concerns are being better addressed by the democratic party.

    Historical actions are only relevant if one believes groups never change their policy positions.

    Heck, at one time the GOP supported very high marginal tax rates (90%) on the top 1% and they supported organized labor. It was during that era the US was the dominant military, manufacturing, and political force in the world. Now they don't support either issue and the US has become a debtor nation and is watching its middle class fade away.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-14-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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    Biggest voting mistake I ever made. I knew going in I should have voted third party. If things don't change damn soon with the so called "Main stream" political parties I see a surge heading for the Libertarians.
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    I have no problem stating that I voted for Obama.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I have no problem stating that I voted for Obama.
    You, and a lot of other low information voters!

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    You, and a lot of other low information voters!
    He's done nothing that hasn't been done or proposed by conservatives in the past. What was once considered good policy by conservatives is now being labeled as socialism. Given the current standards that conservatives use to define socialism, Bush II was a socialist, Reagan, and Eisenhower would now be considered communists.

    It's been fun watching conservatives come unglued when he has made proposals of things they supported in the past.

    Romney's proposals were the exact same policies that have gotten us from being the world's preeminent manufacturing, political, and military power to being one of a debtor nation that is systematically destroying the heart and sole of a nation's economy. That being the middle class.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-15-2013 at 01:51 PM.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I'm more interested in fiscal policy than social issues.
    A convenient debate policy considering every time someone brings up issues with the Obama economy and the fact that it is limping along on life support thanks to his policies, you state that everything is Bush's fault. After how much time will things be his fault? You state you laugh at the Republicans who didn't say anything when Bush was spending to beat the band. I have stated repeatedly that Republicans were wrong to spend like that. When will you decry Obama for doing the same?

    As for social issues, they often translate into fiscal problems. If you dont think entitlement is both a huge fiscal and social problem, then please reexamine the current state of our economy. Our entitlement culture is directly leading to generations of people who do not take responsibility for themselves.

    By the way, yes Republicans had no problem with unions. They dont now. They have issues with government and unions allying together such as in government employee unions and right to work laws. The same problems Liberal God, FDR, had.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    A convenient debate policy considering every time someone brings up issues with the Obama economy and the fact that it is limping along on life support thanks to his policies, you state that everything is Bush's fault. After how much time will things be his fault? You state you laugh at the Republicans who didn't say anything when Bush was spending to beat the band. I have stated repeatedly that Republicans were wrong to spend like that. When will you decry Obama for doing the same?
    I would say Obama should be able to blame Bush for the same length of time Bush was blaming Clinton for the fiscal issues during Bush's Administration. The last one I can find is Jul., 2008. So by that logic Obama should be able to blame Bush till July, 2016.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    As for social issues, they often translate into fiscal problems. If you dont think entitlement is both a huge fiscal and social problem, then please reexamine the current state of our economy. Our entitlement culture is directly leading to generations of people who do not take responsibility for themselves.
    I would be willing to agree with you were it not for the fact that it wasn't that long ago the federal budget was balanced. So called "fiscal conservatives" were elected and immediately cut revenues and boosted spending with debt financing. I would have no problem returning to the taxation structure in place before Bush took office.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    By the way, yes Republicans had no problem with unions. They dont now. They have issues with government and unions allying together such as in government employee unions and right to work laws. The same problems Liberal God, FDR, had.
    Actually FDR didn't have problems with public employee unions. That is yet another piece of mythology put forth by conservatives via a parsed letter written to a federal employee union that was meeting for its annual convention.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I would say Obama should be able to blame Bush for the same length of time Bush was blaming Clinton for the fiscal issues during Bush's Administration. The last one I can find is Jul., 2008. So by that logic Obama should be able to blame Bush till July, 2016.
    I didnt ask about Obama. I was pointing out your hypocrisy of laughing at Republicans who didnt call out Bush when he spent too much. When will you condemn Obama for spending too much?

    I would be willing to agree with you were it not for the fact that it wasn't that long ago the federal budget was balanced. So called "fiscal conservatives" were elected and immediately cut revenues and boosted spending with debt financing. I would have no problem returning to the taxation structure in place before Bush took office.
    I would have no problem with returning to that tax structure as well if spending were cut. When will Obama call for that?

    Actually FDR didn't have problems with public employee unions. That is yet another piece of mythology put forth by conservatives via a parsed letter written to a federal employee union that was meeting for its annual convention.
    You are correct, but he did not believe in the ability of public employee unions to collectively bargain or to strike. The same stance as the Republicans.
    Last edited by Spencer534; 02-16-2013 at 02:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Biggest voting mistake I ever made. I knew going in I should have voted third party. If things don't change damn soon with the so called "Main stream" political parties I see a surge heading for the Libertarians.
    It surprises me to hear you say that considering your union views. How will you balance Libertarian views with those of public sector unions?

    You would have thrown away your vote if you voted third party. You have a much better chance of changing either the D or R party platform from within than electing a third party candidate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I didnt ask about Obama. I was pointing out your hypocrisy of laughing at Republicans who didnt call out Bush when he spent too much. When will you condemn Obama for spending too much?
    Uhhh....yes you did. You wrote:

    After how much time will things be his fault?
    I will condemn for spending too much when the economy is back to what it was when Bush took office. Comparing the economy handed off to Bush versus the one handed off to Obama is laughable to the point of it being a non-sequituir. The current economic recovery plan has been shown to work. Something conservatives have yet to put forth. I'll use an EMS analogy. When the patient (the economy) has a sucking chest wound (the collapse in 2008), the paper cut on his finger (the deficit) isn't the top priority. That being said, the deficit has already been reduced to 70% of what it was when he took office. That is a good sign that things are starting to recover.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I would have no problem with returning to that tax structure as well if spending were cut. When will Obama call for that?
    When the economy is back up and running well. Something conservatives seemed determined to prevent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    You are correct, but he did not believe in the ability of public employee unions to collectively bargain or to strike. The same stance as the Republicans.
    Only half right. He believed public employee unions shouldn't be allowed to strike. He had no problem with them being able to collectively bargain.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-16-2013 at 11:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    If things don't change damn soon with the so called "Main stream" political parties I see a surge heading for the Libertarians.
    Doubtful....
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    It surprises me to hear you say that considering your union views. How will you balance Libertarian views with those of public sector unions?

    Explain to me how disagreeing with one component of a platform makes that less palatable than disagreeing with the majority of both "Major" party's platforms? Do I believe Unions are crucial to employee pay, benefits, job security, pensions, safety and health? YES, I do. The platform does not explicitly speak of banning Unions, it leaves that open to local protocols.


    You would have thrown away your vote if you voted third party. You have a much better chance of changing either the D or R party platform from within than electing a third party candidate.

    That is your opinion. But suppose enough people say time for a change and "throw away their vote the same way? Then what occurs? CHANGE, that's what!
    I an weary of the acceptance of the lies, deception, and dirty dealings of politics as usual. It is time for a change and i would prefer a peaceful change.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Doubtful....

    Keep drinking the mainstream Kool-Aid. I am sure you will say what ever they tell you too.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Keep drinking the mainstream Kool-Aid. I am sure you will say what ever they tell you too.
    You must be very young. Discussion of an emerging third party has been around for at least the previous four decades. That's just in my memory.

    Please keep believing in that myth. Did you know unicorns are real?
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You must be very young. Sorry to disappoint you the all knowing omnipotent one but no, I am not very young, or particularly young at all. Well, unless 54 is young compared to yourself. Discussion of an emerging third party has been around for at least the previous four decades. Golly, I guess you don't count the splintering of the Republican Party into the Tea Party a form of a third party. They weren't actually mainstream Republicans and true they weren't actually a third party but they did run Tea Party candidates that the mainstream republicans didn't really support. That's just in my memory. Memories are great if all you want to do is live in the past, I prefer to live in the present and look to the future and I simply do not believe that the current bloated, corrupt, inept, misguided, virtually unresponsive to the voters main stream political parties can survive if they don't change, The country is more divided than ever and whether you choose to believe it or not Obama is NOT the man to bring us together. He is in fact widening the divide almost every day.

    Please keep believing in that myth. Did you know unicorns are real? No more real than your belief that the current President is the one to lead the country out of its economic woes, out of its loss of stature around the world, and out of the divide in this country that makes it virtually impossible to fix the problems we have as a nation.
    Your pomposity, arrogance, and need to fire snotty little shots, really don't cause me much concern and in fact say far more about you than they do me.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Your pomposity, arrogance, and need to fire snotty little shots, really don't cause me much concern and in fact say far more about you than they do me.
    Your responses don't bely this remark.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Your responses don't bely this remark.
    Now that is funny. Yet another nothing response. You are becoming so predictable.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I will condemn for spending too much when the economy is back to what it was when Bush took office. Comparing the economy handed off to Bush versus the one handed off to Obama is laughable to the point of it being a non-sequituir. The current economic recovery plan has been shown to work. Something conservatives have yet to put forth. I'll use an EMS analogy. When the patient (the economy) has a sucking chest wound (the collapse in 2008), the paper cut on his finger (the deficit) isn't the top priority. That being said, the deficit has already been reduced to 70% of what it was when he took office. That is a good sign that things are starting to recover.
    So, by your logic, if 50 years from now using the same policies as today, the economy is in the same place, you will continue to blame Bush.

    Yes the deficit is 70% of 2008 & 2009, but that was the first stimulus more than anything else. The deficit is still 170% more than any other Bush year. Spending is not the answer to recovery, growth is. Obama has overwhelmingly stifled growth.

    You state you would have no problem in returning to Clinton-era tax policy, yet when I say I could agree with that given certain spending cuts and ask why Obama hasnt called for that tax policy, you state that you cant support it until the economy is back healthy. Huh? Please elaborate. If it is good tax policy why dont you support it to help the economy?

    Only half right. He believed public employee unions shouldn't be allowed to strike. He had no problem with them being able to collectively bargain.
    FDR's words in a 1937 press conference when asked about government employee collective bargaining: "Government does not make contracts with any Government employee." in relation to a 1913 ruling against collective bargaining as Assistant Secretary of the Navy. In the 1937 interview he goes on to say: "That ruling, made, I think, in 1913 is just as good as it was then."

    Additionally in the letter you state was "parsed" from someone else: "All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations." That letter represents not only FDR's views as he read and approved them, the letter was re-released later as the official policy of his administration.
    Last edited by Spencer534; 02-17-2013 at 08:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I an weary of the acceptance of the lies, deception, and dirty dealings of politics as usual. It is time for a change and i would prefer a peaceful change.
    I agree and am glad to see you leaving the Democrats. I just believe it is easier to change from within. Your example of the Tea Party is example that the ability to change a party from within is easier than running a successful third party. Tea Party candidates have been overwhelmingly more politically successful than Libertarian candidates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    So, by your logic, if 50 years from now using the same policies as today, the economy is in the same place, you will continue to blame Bush.
    Hypothetical. That's your logic, not mine. Besides, I'd be over 110. I doubt I'll be around to blame anyone, and if by the rare chance I am, I probably won't care.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Yes the deficit is 70% of 2008 & 2009, but that was the first stimulus more than anything else.
    Wow!! That's an amazing remark given that conservatives constantly claim the Stimulus was a complete failure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    The deficit is still 170% more than any other Bush year.
    WRONG!!! Bush handed off a $1.2T deficit his last year. The deficit has been trending down ever since. With future projections showing further reductions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Spending is not the answer to recovery, growth is. Obama has overwhelmingly stifled growth.
    FDR and Ronald Reagan would disagree with you. Both presidents used spending (incurring deficits) to end the recessionary economies they inherited. Your remark of stifling growth is laughable given the economy has expanded every year he's been in office by any standard measure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    You state you would have no problem in returning to Clinton-era tax policy, yet when I say I could agree with that given certain spending cuts and ask why Obama hasnt called for that tax policy, you state that you cant support it until the economy is back healthy. Huh? Please elaborate. If it is good tax policy why dont you support it to help the economy?
    He has asked for returning to Clinton era tax levels during several of the debt limit negotiations. The GOP has immediately rejected them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    FDR's words in a 1937 press conference when asked about government employee collective bargaining: "Government does not make contracts with any Government employee." in relation to a 1913 ruling against collective bargaining as Assistant Secretary of the Navy. In the 1937 interview he goes on to say: "That ruling, made, I think, in 1913 is just as good as it was then."
    Because the term collective bargaining implied the right to strike. Something FDR opposed. He wasn't opposed to public employees collectively bargaining for the other aspects of wages, hours, and working conditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    Additionally in the letter you state was "parsed" from someone else: "All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations when applied to public personnel management. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for administrative officials to represent fully or to bind the employer in mutual discussions with Government employee organizations." That letter represents not only FDR's views as he read and approved them, the letter was re-released later as the official policy of his administration.
    See above response as it relates to the right to strike.

    The letter also states (CAPs added for emphasis):

    The desire of Government employees for fair and adequate pay, reasonable hours of work, safe and suitable working conditions, development of opportunities for advancement, facilities for fair and impartial consideration and review of grievances, and other objectives of a proper employee relations policy, is basically no different from that of employees in private industry. ORGANIZATION on their part to present their views on such matters is both natural and logical, but meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government.
    Then FDR says in the same letter:

    Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of Government employees.
    He then ends the letter by saying:

    I congratulate the National Federation of Federal Employees the twentieth anniversary of its founding and trust that the convention will, in every way, be successful.
    Read the entire letter and NOT the parsed passages that have become conservative talking points.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-18-2013 at 07:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I agree and am glad to see you leaving the Democrats. I just believe it is easier to change from within. Your example of the Tea Party is example that the ability to change a party from within is easier than running a successful third party. Tea Party candidates have been overwhelmingly more politically successful than Libertarian candidates.
    I fully support the GOP running Tea Party candidates. It's only cost them control of the US Senate the last two election cycles and saw them lose seats in the House in 2012. Full speed ahead.

    Given the current mindset of the Tea Party faction, I'm amazed they idolize Pres. Reagan. He raised taxes, expanded Social Security (by raising taxes), negotiated with terrorists (Iran Contra), tripled the national debt, and advocated for banning assault weapons.

    But that is a topic for a different thread.
    Last edited by scfire86; 02-17-2013 at 11:20 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spencer534 View Post
    I agree and am glad to see you leaving the Democrats. I just believe it is easier to change from within. Your example of the Tea Party is example that the ability to change a party from within is easier than running a successful third party. Tea Party candidates have been overwhelmingly more politically successful than Libertarian candidates.
    I'm not leaving anybody. I am not now, nor have I ever been, nor will I ever be, a registered member of any political party. I believe making a choice based on the candidates past performance, or if new to the political scene...if they actually follow through with what they said they will do.

    To be brutally honest I can't stand the direction the Tea Party wants to go and I am in absolute disdain of Republican politics in my home state. The blatant bought and paid for aspect of scooter walker makes me want to puke as he blames all public employees for the states woes and sells the governor's office to the highest bidder. I am equally disgusted with the hard leftist liberal democrats and their decimation of the constitution and the fact that our Homeland (lack of any real security) Security is buying up enough ammunition and guns to kill every man, woman, and child in the US several times over. Corruption, deception, secrets, and tearing at the very fiber of freedom in this country for agendas that mean little or nothing to the average working man and woman seem to be the guiding light of BOTH parties.

    I am not calling for an armed revolution or a take over by force. I still hold out hope that peaceful change through our democratic process is still possible. But the fact is we now have mainstream people becoming "Doomsday Preppers" in anticipation of that catastrophic event of social or governmental collapse. It isn't necessarily only a bunch of wacked out survivalists that believe it is coming.

    So Spencer534, don't celebrate my disillusionment as a victory for the right, especially the Tea Party, just consider it as my acknowledgement that both sides don't have our best interests at heart and haven't for a very long time.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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