Why are you voting for whoever for President?

[txgp17]

Any public employee that votes republican is cutting their own throats financially and job security wise. How do I know? Governor scooter walker and his anti-union, anti-employee, anti-middle class, bought and paid for by the likes of the koch brothers.

Firefighters and law enforcement officers are exempted from Walker’s reforms. Walker had legitimate reasons for exempting police and firefighters—if public-safety workers strike, the public safety is threatened. But the 1st Amendment allows you keep spreading lies, so enjoy your liberty.

Nothing has killed more jobs in America than unions that have a monopoly on the supply of labor. Just look at the most liberal city in America, Detroit. It's on the verge of becoming a 3rd world feces-hole. Liberals run every aspect of that city, and they want to do the same thing to America that they've accomplished there.

And the Koch brothers are individual citizens, free to spend their money how they please. It sounds like you got serious butt-hurt over Citizens United, and that only dealt with corporate free speech, not individual free speech.

By the way, unemployment dropped below 8%...Golly what a bad break for the right wing!!

And the next month, it starts going back up again. Anemic.

[FyredUp]

Firefighters and law enforcement officers are exempted from Walker’s reforms. Walker had legitimate reasons for exempting police and firefighters—if public-safety workers strike, the public safety is threatened. But the 1st Amendment allows you keep spreading lies, so enjoy your liberty.

There is no lie...The truth is several communities have petitioned Scooter to get that exemption eliminated. No firefighters, well maybe other than Milwaukee, believe that exemption will last. It has nothing to do with striking, and if you want to accuse me of spreading lies where are your facts to back the no strike reason for the exemption?

Nothing has killed more jobs in America than unions that have a monopoly on the supply of labor. Just look at the most liberal city in America, Detroit. It's on the verge of becoming a 3rd world feces-hole. Liberals run every aspect of that city, and they want to do the same thing to America that they've accomplished there.

And what about other cities with strong leadership AND strong Unions? If Unions destroy everything why isn't every city exactly like Detroit? The reason Detroit is in the trouble it is is CORRUPTION of its leaders.

And the Koch brothers are individual citizens, free to spend their money how they please. It sounds like you got serious butt-hurt over Citizens United, and that only dealt with corporate free speech, not individual free speech.And the next month, it starts going back up again. Anemic.

Buying politicians, and hence the office they run for, is inappropriatee no matter which side of the aisle does it. For you it is okay if YOUR side does it.

Get over it, YOU LOST! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHA!!

[Dialed]

So the question is now, do you think the GOP is stupid enough to continue to be the obstructionists they've been for the past 4 years. Will they continue Mitch McConnell's "Our number one goal is to make Obama a one term president", or will they wise up and star working with the POTUS?

[scfire86]

Get over it, YOU LOST! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHA!!

You beat me to it.

Better luck next time for our resident moonbat and his followers. I guess the Reagan model didn't work so well for him like he'd hoped.

Oh, you mean those polls that consistently poll Democrats at significanlty higher rates than Republicans? This time in 1980 Carter was double digits ahead of Reagan, and we all know how a mid-east crisis influence that election. President Zero is basically Carter 2.0.His citizenship is still questionable based on his citizenship in other countries that America prohibited dual citizenship with.

Carter 2.0 kicked Romney's a**. Do keep up with the citizenship claims. It why you're our moonbat.

[HuntPA]

Now that the election is over, we can all move forward from the extremely devisive nature of this past election and actually accomplish something. I was hoping that there would be more backlash from the unwillingness of both sides to compromise and do something, but evidently people don't think that is as much of a problem as I do.

I hope for the best to come and truely wish for the best for our country and that reconcilliation is possible.

[txgp17]

There is no lie...
...if you want to accuse me of spreading lies where are your facts to back

There are lies in your statement. You said "Any (meaning all) public employee that votes republican is cutting their own throats financially and job security wise." Since Walker's reforms did not affect public safety collective bargaining, then it didn't cut the throat of any public safety workers. That is the cold hard fact that you're lying about. Is this what you meant when you said you'd "decimate" me in a matter of minutes in a debate?

If anything, Walker's reforms helped public safety workers. If the wages of non-public safety workers are curtailed, then a municipality has more money available to pay public safety personnel. Like when an automotive loan is paid off and you have more money left over to spend on other things.

The public safety personnel should have backed Walker's reforms because it added security to their jobs. Why didn't they? Because unions (with monopoly power) aren't about the workers, they're about the unions.

If Unions destroy everything why isn't every city exactly like Detroit?

I did not say unions destroy everything. Is this how you "decimate" your debate opponents, by putting words in their mouth?

Buying politicians, and hence the office they run for, is inappropriatee no matter which side of the aisle does it.

Spending money on free speech is not the same as buying a politician, but it's not like anyone expects an Obama voter to understand the difference.

Buying a politician is more like George Kaiser raising money for Obama, and then a company that he's heavily financed in (Solyndra) receiving $535 million in loans from the Energy Dept, and then that company going bankrupt with nothing to show for the taxpayer money.

The Obama administration is famous for its crony capitalism. It’s famous for wasting money on disastrous investments like Solyndra to pay off its political allies. Hundreds of his biggest donors have landed government jobs and advisory posts, or won federal contracts worth millions of dollars for their business interests.

You decry the Koch brothers for spending their own money on free speech, but you have no problem with politicians buying votes with debt that future generations are required to pay for.

face to face in a debate I would decimate you in a matter of minutes.

It's been well over a month now. What's your excuse? If by decimate you meant having to eat your own words, then you're right. Like when I eviscerated your ramblings
here: firehouse.com/forums/t110836-4/#post1103006
and here: firehouse.com/forums/t110836-4/#post1102657

Get over it, YOU LOST! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHAHAHAHA!!

Spoken like an 11 year old on the playground. What's next, you gonna take somebody's lunch money? But that's what this nation has become, a nation of children casting ballots for Santa Clause (the candidate who promises to give them the most) Since your Mommy didn't do it, I will. SANTA CLAUSE IS NOT REAL. We all lost in this election.

Do keep up with the citizenship claims. It why you're our moonbat.

Your attack on me is meaningless based on your history of believing that:

• No Nazi/Bush comparisons were ever made
• The Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000.00.
• The Fed.gov’s fiscal year ended on June 30.
• That budget deficits and National Debt are the same thing.
• Government run healthcare is better than private sector healthcare.
• Bush's lifting of OCS Drilling Ban had zero effect on crude oil prices.
• I, and other conservatives, was never critical of Bush's spending.
• Government programs like the CRA had no influence on the present recession.
• The Republican controlled congress in the last 6 years of Clinton's administration had nothing to do with a balanced budget, despite the fact that the Constitution requires that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives."
• That Reagan was a BIGG TAX LIBERAL when governor of CA.
• That caps on malpractice lawsuits have no effect on insurance premiums.
• That removing barriers to competition among health insurance companies will have no effects on their pricing.
• That Republicans controled the Senate and Congress in 1994.
• The some form of a health care bill would be signed by Obama before the end of 2009.

[txgp17]

[FyredUp]

There are lies in your statement. You said "Any (meaning all) public employee that votes republican is cutting their own throats financially and job security wise." Since Walker's reforms did not affect public safety collective bargaining, then it didn't cut the throat of any public safety workers. That is the cold hard fact that you're lying about. Is this what you meant when you said you'd "decimate" me in a matter of minutes in a debate?

Are you on crack? Seriously, you couldn't sound stupider and more uninformed about the situation in Wisconsin if you lived in the outback. Guess what super genius almost every career FD I know of in Wisconsin made wage concessions, is paying their half of the pension and higher health care costs. We were told flat out you WILL pay your half of the pension, even though you say walker exempted us, or they were going to jack our health care costs and more than double our co-pays and deductibles.

So much for your rambling Fox News style analysis of the situation in Wisconsin.

If anything, Walker's reforms helped public safety workers. If the wages of non-public safety workers are curtailed, then a municipality has more money available to pay public safety personnel. Like when an automotive loan is paid off and you have more money left over to spend on other things.

Nonsense, our wages have GONE down due to paying half of the pension costs and increased health care costs. You are completely delusional in your thinking and really need to stop posting such completely idiot, indefensible nonsense. No matter how many times Rush tries to make you believe it is true it is completely false, a blatant outright LIE.

The public safety personnel should have backed Walker's reforms because it added security to their jobs. Why didn't they? Because unions (with monopoly power) aren't about the workers, they're about the unions.I did not say unions destroy everything. Is this how you "decimate" your debate opponents, by putting words in their mouth?Spending money on free speech is not the same as buying a politician, but it's not like anyone expects an Obama voter to understand the difference.

Nonsense again, my career FD and many in my area are NOT replacing people that retire. There is no job security. The threat of layoffs looms over all of us now. So once again you have absolutely NO clue what you are talking about. How about you talk to Milwaukee Fire, they supported walker and lost a ladder company last year, staffing on their rigs was reduced, and they have more vacancies UNFILLED on their FD than my FD has total members. So tell me again about how we should have supported this clown?

Buying a politician is more like George Kaiser raising money for Obama, and then a company that he's heavily financed in (Solyndra) receiving $535 million in loans from the Energy Dept, and then that company going bankrupt with nothing to show for the taxpayer money.

The Obama administration is famous for its crony capitalism. It’s famous for wasting money on disastrous investments like Solyndra to pay off its political allies. Hundreds of his biggest donors have landed government jobs and advisory posts, or won federal contracts worth millions of dollars for their business interests.

You decry the Koch brothers for spending their own money on free speech, but you have no problem with politicians buying votes with debt that future generations are required to pay for.It's been well over a month now. What's your excuse? If by decimate you meant having to eat your own words, then you're right. Like when I eviscerated your ramblings
here: firehouse.com/forums/t110836-4/#post1103006
and here: firehouse.com/forums/t110836-4/#post1102657Spoken like an 11 year old on the playground. What's next, you gonna take somebody's lunch money? But that's what this nation has become, a nation of children casting ballots for Santa Clause (the candidate who promises to give them the most) Since your Mommy didn't do it, I will. SANTA CLAUSE IS NOT REAL. We all lost in this election. Your attack on me is meaningless based on your history of believing that:

• No Nazi/Bush comparisons were ever made
• The Iraq War cost $3,000,000,000,000.00.
• The Fed.gov’s fiscal year ended on June 30.
• That budget deficits and National Debt are the same thing.
• Government run healthcare is better than private sector healthcare.
• Bush's lifting of OCS Drilling Ban had zero effect on crude oil prices.
• I, and other conservatives, was never critical of Bush's spending.
• Government programs like the CRA had no influence on the present recession.
• The Republican controlled congress in the last 6 years of Clinton's administration had nothing to do with a balanced budget, despite the fact that the Constitution requires that "All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives."
• That Reagan was a BIGG TAX LIBERAL when governor of CA.
• That caps on malpractice lawsuits have no effect on insurance premiums.
• That removing barriers to competition among health insurance companies will have no effects on their pricing.
• That Republicans controled the Senate and Congress in 1994.
• The some form of a health care bill would be signed by Obama before the end of 2009.

Frankly, your delusional need to put words in my mouth is becoming old and very, very, tiresome. Please find any place, anywhere, on these forums or elsewhere where I said any of the crap you posted here that you say I said. Good luck, because you know I never said any of it and that makes you just another lying, sore loser, right wing, cry baby.

The Koch Brothers, along with the other cronies, and walker, care nothing about anything but lining their pockets. Where's your comments decrying walker's staff members being convicted of working on his campiagn and using county resources for his campaign? Maybe that is corrupt enough for you. Well it is here and they are going to jail.

Like I said the other day, GET OVER T, you and the uber rich lost this round and will continue to lose as more people wake up.

[FyredUp]

And FEMA performed so much better under Bush during Katrina? Yeah right.

FEMA is a joke and has been for years.

[scfire86]

.........

Hey moonbat. Obama won. Get over it.

He can now proceed to govern with a mandate won in last Tuesday's election.

I'm sure being a good American you'll support the will of the people.

Please continue with your incredibly long and laborious posts. Always good to know the crazies are at least committed.

[scfire86]

And FEMA performed so much better under Bush during Katrina? Yeah right.

FEMA is a joke and has been for years.

And my healthcare is fine. Thanks for asking.

[txgp17]

most every career FD I know of in Wisconsin made wage concessions, is paying their half of the pension and higher health care costs. We were told flat out you WILL pay your half of the pension, even though you say walker exempted us, or they were going to jack our health care costs and more than double our co-pays and deductibles.

But those concessions didn't result from Walker's reforms, they're a result of this long cold recession perpetuated by Obamunism. And your higher healthcare costs are a direct result of Obamacare. Surely you didn't think companies can provide more services without charging more money.

Collective bargaining in both the private and government sectors is monopoly unionism. It represents a violation of the freedom of association.

Virginia totally repealed all public sector collective bargaining 19 years ago. (Code of Virginia § 40.1-57.2) It was done on a bipartisan scale, and no one fled the state, no one received death threats, no one stormed the capital.

In 2008, a Democrat filed HB 852, which would have repealed the collective bargaining ban, with no cosponsors. The Republican majority allowed it to reach the floor, and not a single Democrat voted for it. The sole Democrat who sponsored it actually moved to strike his own bill. I didn't recall Richard Trumka and the AFL-CIO thugs demonizing anyone over that. The hypocrisy and double standards are obvious. It is okay for Democrats to oppose public-sector collective bargaining, but Republicans can expect vitriolic, over-the-top accusations, and even death threats. This is not about policy; this is raw and desperate partisan politics from Trumka and other union bosses who are desperate for more union dues to solidify their power and dole out more campaign cash from those dues.

The concessions you and your peers are experiencing are a result of your union pushing too far on wages, requiring cut backs when bad economic times hit. Welcome to reality.

By the way, in the last 18 months, my pay has risen 21%, with another raise scheduled for January. My city is buying trucks, building stations, and adding 3 more battalion chiefs to ease the span of control. Man it sure does suck to work in a right-to-work state.

our wages have GONE down due to paying half of the pension costs and increased health care costs.

Sounds like you're getting close to the share I pay. Cry me a river. What would you prefer, an a promise of higher wages backed by an insolvent system, or real expectation that your pension system can pay the benefits you're planning your retirement around?

The point that you're unable to comprehend, is that the unions with collective bargaining power are hurting firefighters, not helping them. They push wages and benefits to a realm that is unsustainable.

So tell me again about how we should have supported this clown?

Because he exempted you from his reforms.

Frankly, your delusional need to put words in my mouth is becoming old and very, very, tiresome. Please find any place, anywhere, on these forums or elsewhere where I said any of the crap you posted here that you say I said. Good luck, because you know I never said any of it and that makes you just another lying, sore loser, right wing, cry baby.

I didn't say YOU said any of those things. If you'll look at the UNEDITED post (#228), you'll see I was quoting scfire86. Reading is fundamental.

And FEMA performed so much better under Bush during Katrina? Yeah right.

FEMA is a joke and has been for years.

I didn't say FEMA performed any better in Katrina did I? The difference is the 24/7 demonization of Bush and Micheal Brown by the media during and after Katrina.

But when FEMA crashes and burns under President Downgrade, all I hear on the news is how great he is.

Hey moonbat. Obama won. Get over it.

He can now proceed to govern with a mandate won in last Tuesday's election.

I'm sure being a good American you'll support the will of the people.

Please continue with your incredibly long and laborious posts. Always good to know the crazies are at least committed.

All you have is ad hominem attacks.

If Obama has a mandate, then the House of Reps does too, since voters kept the adults in charge of it.

Please tell us all, what is our “fair share” of what someone else has worked for?

[FyredUp]

But those concessions didn't result from Walker's reforms, they're a result of this long cold recession perpetuated by Obamunism. And your higher healthcare costs are a direct result of Obamacare. Surely you didn't think companies can provide more services without charging more money.

They are a DIRECT result of Walker's administration and frankly I don't give a damn what you believe. I live and work here and I am intune to what is happening HERE. You aren't, and your pathetic analysis from South Carolina shows that.

Collective bargaining in both the private and government sectors is monopoly unionism. It represents a violation of the freedom of association.

If you believe that you have absolutely no idea what collective bargaining is. BARGAINING! It means both sides come to the table put forth their offers and negotiate a contract. Sometimes labor wins, sometimes management wins, and sometimes believe it or not the compromise lets both sides win.

Virginia totally repealed all public sector collective bargaining 19 years ago. (Code of Virginia § 40.1-57.2) It was done on a bipartisan scale, and no one fled the state, no one received death threats, no one stormed the capital.

Good for them, frankly why should I care? I don't live there and if their citizens like it that way good for them. I can't help but wonder why you care about how things go here in Wisconsin. I couldn't care less what goes on in South Carolina because it does not directly affect me.

By the way, no one stormed anything here in Wisconsin, the protests were legal and lawabiding, despite what Fox News made you believe.

In 2008, a Democrat filed HB 852, which would have repealed the collective bargaining ban, with no cosponsors. The Republican majority allowed it to reach the floor, and not a single Democrat voted for it. The sole Democrat who sponsored it actually moved to strike his own bill. I didn't recall Richard Trumka and the AFL-CIO thugs demonizing anyone over that. The hypocrisy and double standards are obvious. It is okay for Democrats to oppose public-sector collective bargaining, but Republicans can expect vitriolic, over-the-top accusations, and even death threats. This is not about policy; this is raw and desperate partisan politics from Trumka and other union bosses who are desperate for more union dues to solidify their power and dole out more campaign cash from those dues.

It's too bad that your democrats had no back bone. Ours did and still are fighting the good fight here.

The concessions you and your peers are experiencing are a result of your union pushing too far on wages, requiring cut backs when bad economic times hit. Welcome to reality.

You are a completely uninformed puppet of the right. MY UNION made concessions long before it was a right wing marching order. We made concessions to keep 12 guys on the job. So before you yap like a little pocket dog, how about doing some real research?

By the way, in the last 18 months, my pay has risen 21%, with another raise scheduled for January. My city is buying trucks, building stations, and adding 3 more battalion chiefs to ease the span of control. Man it sure does suck to work in a right-to-work state.Sounds like you're getting close to the share I pay. Cry me a river. What would you prefer, an a promise of higher wages backed by an insolvent system, or real expectation that your pension system can pay the benefits you're planning your retirement around.

First of all I am not calling you a liar about your 21% raises over 3 years, but I am caling you less than truthful. Does that include a pay raise for a promotion? or incentive pay for education? Because frankly I do not believe you are telling the whole story.


The point that you're unable to comprehend, is that the unions with collective bargaining power are hurting firefighters, not helping them. They push wages and benefits to a realm that is unsustainable. Because he exempted you from his reforms.

Nonsense...it is called BARGAINING. We have never gotten all we wanted, and have made concessions for years now to keep people on the job. The problem with guys like you that swallow all the right wing rhetoric that Unions go in and FORCE management to give them everything they want...it is so sad how gullible you are. Open your mind and learn about collective bargaining and Unions, you might be surprised how completely uninformed you are.

I didn't say YOU said any of those things. If you'll look at the UNEDITED post (#228), you'll see I was quoting scfire86. Reading is fundamental. I didn't say FEMA performed any better in Katrina did I? The difference is the 24/7 demonization of Bush and Micheal Brown by the media during and after Katrina.

Well Sunshine, don't post stuff for other people and make it look like you are posting it to me. That might eliminate the confusion you created.

To me the culprit in both cases is FEMA and their completely inept leadership.

But when FEMA crashes and burns under President Downgrade, all I hear on the news is how great he is.All you have is ad hominem attacks.

I never said anything about Obama, I spoke about FEMA.

If Obama has a mandate, then the House of Reps does too, since voters kept the adults in charge of it.

Whatever, maybe they can stall, obstruct, and cry for another 4 years too!

Please tell us all, what is our “fair share” of what someone else has worked for?

It will stun a closed minded guy like you but we agree too many people expect the government to do everything for them. The differece between you and me is I believe there are people that need government assistance, your side would dump them to fend for themselves.

Your side lost....move on with your life.

[scfire86]

All you have is ad hominem attacks.

I know. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm glad to know you're okay. I was worried about you. Most of my conservative friends are moping around like their dog just got run over.

If Obama has a mandate, then the House of Reps does too, since voters kept the adults in charge of it.

Yup. For the first time in US history, the party whose candidates received the most aggregate votes was kept in the minority after an election. Gotta love those electoral flukes. Even with gerrymandered districts, the GOP lost ground in the House.

Please tell us all, what is our “fair share” of what someone else has worked for?

I would go back to the rates we had during the 90's. That's a good start. If people complain about their "hard earned" dollars going to taxes, they are free to move to a country that taxes them less. Here's the part you'd like to ignore. Conservatives have their noses in the trough just as deep as any liberal. And your home state is a HUGE recipient state versus mine which is a donor state. I don't mind subsidizing your pathetic little life.

Thanks again for your long-winded blabbering post.

BTW, guess who is getting sworn in for a 2nd term on Jan. 20, 2013? That Reagan analogy you were spouting (and hoping) didn't pan out to well for you. Liberals based their predictions on logic and mathematical analysis. Conservatives were basing their predictions on emotion and their "feelings." You can chalk this one up to the math geeks. The aggregate polling data never showed Romney was ever in the race and results proved that out.

I have to admit I'm enjoying watching the latest addition to the variety of comedy channels on cable TV. You might have heard about it. It's called Fox News. The conservative whinefest of victimhood has been hysterical to watch in the last week. As the president was nearing the necessary number to clinch the electoral college, I switched to Fox News to watch their reaction. I was laughing my butt off watching the so called genius Karl Rove melt down when Ohio was called for Obama and ended the Romney campaign. Though I have to admit that Megyn Kelly has some great legs. So there were collateral benefits. Now I watch them all the time while ignoring the idiot commercials wanting to know if I need a catheter, a gold future, or want to be part of a lawsuit over asbestos exposure.

The next four years are going to be fun. BTW, are you still pushing the birth certificate meme? How is that working out? Please don't stop. I love watching the birthers continue to take down the conservative movement.

Since you're so boastful about your compensation, I'm sure you'll be happy to know Greensboro FF's make half what the equivalent rank pays in my old department. You're so far behind you'll never have to worry about catching up.

[scfire86]

Post deleted by user.

[scfire86]

Your side lost....move on with your life.

Moonbat can't move on. It's why he's our resident moonbat.

He throws out a ton of crap. But little to no substance.

He claims to be so concerned about an individual's "hard earned" money being used to pay for the government he despises. The paradox being that someone's "hard earned" money was paid in taxes to pay for his salary, pension, and benefit package.

That's always one of the funnier paradoxes I would see in the mindset of the typical conservative public employee.

Taxes are bad. Except the one's that benefit folks like him.

[donethat]

Obama won. He can now proceed to govern with a mandate won in last Tuesday's election.

With a 2-1/2% margin in the popular vote I would hardly call that a mandate!
And if irregularities in Philadelphia, Cuyahoga County, Oh. and St. Lucie County Florida, to name a few, were to be investigated for the blatant voter fraud that appears to have went on there, the margin would be even less.

[scfire86]

With a 2-1/2% margin in the popular vote I would hardly call that a mandate!
And if irregularities in Philadelphia, Cuyahoga County, Oh. and St. Lucie County Florida, to name a few, were to be investigated for the blatant voter fraud that appears to have went on there, the margin would be even less.

Lol. More bellyaching from the sore loser crowd.

The claims of irregularities are what happens when you lost. I hate to break the news to you. But I'm going to whoop some simple math on you. Even if what you believe is true, Obama can lose both Ohio and Florida, and he still gets sworn in on Jan. 20, 2013.

Please keep believing the nonsense you read in the conservative media. It's been so accurate so far.

[donethat]

I never said the voting fraud would change the outcome, just that the so called “Mandate” would be less. When St. Lucie County Fl. has approx. 175,000 registered voters and you have a ballot count of approx. 250,000, something starts to smell.

[scfire86]

I never said the voting fraud would change the outcome, just that the so called “Mandate” would be less. When St. Lucie County Fl. has approx. 175,000 registered voters and you have a ballot count of approx. 250,000, something starts to smell.

Only if one is a loser. Time to move on. Better luck next time.

If you want something that smells, maybe you can explain how Democratic House of Representatives candidates received more votes (in aggregate) than their Republican counterparts and are still in the minority. That is the first time that has happened in US history.