Why are you voting for whoever for President?

[Spencer534]

The private sector played a part after the federal government started spending.

Not true. Federal spending increased at a slower pace than in the Carter administration the first four years of Reagan's term, yet the growth rate had increased to 8% and stayed near that mark for a year and around 4% the second term. Growth, not higher or lower taxes, is the key to recovery and a good economy.

And I didn't say that. I did say that he handed off balanced budgets and a budget surplus. He did not have to borrow the last two years of his administration.

Agreed

Would like to see that plan analyzed by someone other than an individual on an obscure message board.

C'mon, on the side I am a Nobel winning economist.

Those were the main revenue points of President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. It received bipartisan support, yet President Obama didnt do anything with it.

What you describe is happening now. CA is a donor state to the federal government. Why should taxes generated in CA go to an oil company in the form of subsidies? There are lots of thing the feds do that I don't support. But I pay my taxes knowing the alternative (that I've seen in many foreign countries) could be much worse.

I agree. We should not be subsidizing any company. I know Romney is for that. I also agree that there will always be things we disagree with in our government and it is our responsibility to pay taxes and try to change the government peacefully through the election process. We are fortunate to be able to state our grievances with the government and not worry about whether our life is in danger like in some other countries.

I was glad to see the IAFF has endorsed the President.

Was there any question that they wouldnt?

[scfire86]

Not true. Federal spending increased at a slower pace than in the Carter administration the first four years of Reagan's term, yet the growth rate had increased to 8% and stayed near that mark for a year and around 4% the second term. Growth, not higher or lower taxes, is the key to recovery and a good economy.

Lower interest rates might have helped. Along with enough capital infusion that effectively tripled the national debt. I already cited the lowering of taxes to higher than they are now.

C'mon, on the side I am a Nobel winning economist.

So am I.

Those were the main revenue points of President Obama's National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform. It received bipartisan support, yet President Obama didnt do anything with it.

Neither has the other side of the aisle.

I agree. We should not be subsidizing any company. I know Romney is for that. I also agree that there will always be things we disagree with in our government and it is our responsibility to pay taxes and try to change the government peacefully through the election process. We are fortunate to be able to state our grievances with the government and not worry about whether our life is in danger like in some other countries.

But will Romney do anything about it? There is nothing in the history of conservative presidents to indicate he will be any different.

Was there any question that they wouldnt?

Dunno. You'll have to ask them. But I'm glad they did.

[FyredUp]

Not appropriate for the General Forum, but I hope people see this. Havent seen this discussion recently and wanted to hear how others think. Would like the discussion to be about issues, but this is such a "hot" topic, I know that will be difficult.

I am voting for Romney for President because of the reasons below. I do not think that Romney is the next Washington or Lincoln, but he is the person electable who most closely reflects the values that I have.

1 - I believe America is the greatest country in the history of the world and its values should be furthered.

And how does Romney support this? By outsourcing jobs to Mexico and China, and by sending HIS money to offshore banks. I am sure he believes the United States is the greatest country in the world. It has made him wealthy an allowed him to shelter that money from being taxed fairly in this country.

2 - I believe the free market system is not only the best economic system based on economic reasons, but moral reasons as well. I am not stupid, however. There does need to be some regulation, but it should be minimal.

For the most part we have not had a TRUE free market economy in quite a long time. The immense difference between the rules the little guys have to play buy and the rules the mega-corporations play by unfairlytilt the scales to big business. Subsidies abound thorugh all facets of our economy from industry all the way to farming.

3 - I believe the primary responsibility of the federal government is to protect our nation from foreign threats and our military must be strong.

I don't disagree with this premise. But I believe that the government has a responsible to care for itscitizens before the rest of the world. We supply foreign aid in the hundreds of billions dollars all over the world while our very own citizens live in poverty, suffer from lack of medical care, substandard housing, and unemployment.

4 - I believe everyone should pay their fair share of taxes. There should be a set percentage rate for everyone with no loopholes. The tax system is too unwieldy and needs to be fixed.

I believe in a straight percentage tax, no matter what your income is. No deductions, no loopholes. If the rate is 10%, you pay 10% if you make $20K or $200 billion.

5 - I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman as outlined in the bible. I dont believe this is a federal issue.

Frankly, it is a none of your businss issue. Why do YOU or anyone feel they have the right to tell people who they can or can't fall in love with and marry. Many claim it is a religious issue, and for some ultra right wing "Christians" I am sure it is, but to me the greater issue is financial. Look at how many more people would have to be covered by spousal benefits by companies out there. Frankly, with the scandals continuously rocking religions over and over maybe they need to spend some time cleaning their own house before judging others. And NO, I am not gay. I just believe fair is fair.

Discrimination is a dirty, ugly thing not to be condoned for any reason and homophobia is discrimination.


6 - I believe abortion is wrong except in the case of rape, incest or the health of the mother. I dont believe this is a federal issue.

Again, this is a none of your business issue. Unless you are the father or the mother why do you fel you have the right to tell a woman what she can or can'tdo with her body?

Frankly, I have stated for years, if all you anti-abortionists would set up a registry saying you would adopt all of these to be aborted children then I would believe your convictions were anything more than being busybodies with nothing better to do with your time.

7 - I believe in a safety net to keep people from devastating poverty, but I dont believe in a system which allows people to receive benefits indefinitely. I believe such a system should be administered by the states, not the federal government.

I believe that if the greater incentive was to wean people off from welfare than to keep them on the system would work on its own.

The odds of having anything close to equitable systems in all 50 states if assistance was run by the individual states is almost nil.


There are other issues to be discussed, but it is time for work.

Funny how the right always talks about getting government out of your life, well, unless you are gay or want an abortion...

[Wolfn]

I'm voting for Ron Paul because I agree with alot of his policies and he seems to know what's wrong with the government and how to fix it. Unlike Romney or Obama, he knows government spending is a major factor why the country is in debt and seems to realize it while Obama and Romney can't. Yes, Bush ruined the economy, but I don't think Obama made any attempt to fix it at all. With Romney, he does have some good idea but ultimately I think he'll end up being another Bush.

I voted for Obama in 2008 to keep Sarah Palin out of the White House and I'm not proud of the fact I voted for Obama. I should have voted for Ron Paul back in 2008. Yes, he lost the election and people said that I would throw away my vote if I voted for Ron Paul. However, I now believe that it's not truly voting if you vote for someone because they have the better chance of winning. You should vote for someone who you think will do the best job. Hopefully I won't make the same mistake twice.

[scfire86]

Funny how the right always talks about getting government out of your life, well, unless you are gay or want an abortion...

The right always talks about getting government out of their lives unless they are benefitting from said government. Then, they are all about the government.

[scfire86]

I'm voting for Ron Paul because I agree with alot of his policies and he seems to know what's wrong with the government and how to fix it. Unlike Romney or Obama, he knows government spending is a major factor why the country is in debt and seems to realize it while Obama and Romney can't. Yes, Bush ruined the economy, but I don't think Obama made any attempt to fix it at all. With Romney, he does have some good idea but ultimately I think he'll end up being another Bush.

I disagree. Economic indicators have improved since Obama took office. The economy was shedding 500K jobs per month in Jan. 2009. It's now adding them. Albeit slowly.

The GOP has shown they have no interest in aiding the recovery.

I voted for Obama in 2008 to keep Sarah Palin out of the White House and I'm not proud of the fact I voted for Obama. I should have voted for Ron Paul back in 2008. Yes, he lost the election and people said that I would throw away my vote if I voted for Ron Paul. However, I now believe that it's not truly voting if you vote for someone because they have the better chance of winning. You should vote for someone who you think will do the best job. Hopefully I won't make the same mistake twice.

I voted for Obama and am indeed proud of that fact.

The GOP or anyone else has yet to put forth a viable alternative. You are certainly allowed your opinion of Ron Paul. And I have to say he is treated badly by his own party.

Personally I see he and his son and just another conservative hypocrite who rail against government but live on it.

[Dialed]

The GOP has shown they have no interest in aiding the recovery.

This is sad but true. The Republicans blocked the American Jobs Act from even being debated on the floor. Not to mention the record number of filibusters by the Republicans.

[Spencer534]

This is sad but true. The Republicans blocked the American Jobs Act from even being debated on the floor. Not to mention the record number of filibusters by the Republicans.

The American Jobs act was not supported by Harry Reid and almost all of the centrist Democrats in the Senate.

The JOBS act was passed with huge bi-partisan support, but the president will not talk about that.

[Spencer534]

And how does Romney support this? By outsourcing jobs to Mexico and China, and by sending HIS money to offshore banks. I am sure he believes the United States is the greatest country in the world. It has made him wealthy an allowed him to shelter that money from being taxed fairly in this country.

So companies that have to compete in a global economy should not be able to send jobs overseas if it is beneficial to the company? That is suicide. Yes, if a company can have American workers, that is preferred, but if the alternative is the failure of the company, that is not good.

Why cant someone who has already paid income tax on his money keep his money somewhere to keep from paying extra taxes? Lets change the tax code so people will keep their money here.

For the most part we have not had a TRUE free market economy in quite a long time. The immense difference between the rules the little guys have to play buy and the rules the mega-corporations play by unfairlytilt the scales to big business. Subsidies abound thorugh all facets of our economy from industry all the way to farming.

Agreed. Both Dems and Reps are responsible.

I don't disagree with this premise. But I believe that the government has a responsible to care for itscitizens before the rest of the world. We supply foreign aid in the hundreds of billions dollars all over the world while our very own citizens live in poverty, suffer from lack of medical care, substandard housing, and unemployment.

I agree with you on spending too much on other countries, but am not for money going to establish new Federal entitlements.

I believe in a straight percentage tax, no matter what your income is. No deductions, no loopholes. If the rate is 10%, you pay 10% if you make $20K or $200 billion.

Agreed. Romney's tax plan is much closer to this than Obama's.

Frankly, it is a none of your businss issue. Why do YOU or anyone feel they have the right to tell people who they can or can't fall in love with and marry. Many claim it is a religious issue, and for some ultra right wing "Christians" I am sure it is, but to me the greater issue is financial. Look at how many more people would have to be covered by spousal benefits by companies out there. Frankly, with the scandals continuously rocking religions over and over maybe they need to spend some time cleaning their own house before judging others. And NO, I am not gay. I just believe fair is fair.

I have no issue with gay people having civil unions or another means to secure the same benefits that married people have. Marriage is a religious rite. I dont believe the government should have anything to do with marriage either. I think two people who love each other should have a ceremony performed by an official (pastor, justice of the peace, etc) and then apply to the state to have that union recognized for benefits.

Discrimination is a dirty, ugly thing not to be condoned for any reason and homophobia is discrimination.

I dont have homophobia and agree that discrimination based on issues like race, sex, religion, etc is wrong. I dont have a problem discriminating against people who make poor choices such as the druggie that wants a job in the FD.

Again, this is a none of your business issue. Unless you are the father or the mother why do you fel you have the right to tell a woman what she can or can'tdo with her body?

Frankly, I have stated for years, if all you anti-abortionists would set up a registry saying you would adopt all of these to be aborted children then I would believe your convictions were anything more than being busybodies with nothing better to do with your time.

I think abortion after more than a few weeks of gestation is murder. I feel I have the right to tell others that it is wrong to commit murder. How come those who are for abortion arent standing up for those murderers who kill a pregnant women when that murderer is charged with two murders?

There are plenty of religious organizations and people who adopt children, but your analogy of having someone else take an extreme, life-altering responsibility for 18 or more years because someone else made poor choices is silly. That is like saying that people who want legalized abortion should have to bury the body of the child that is aborted.

I believe that if the greater incentive was to wean people off from welfare than to keep them on the system would work on its own.

The odds of having anything close to equitable systems in all 50 states if assistance was run by the individual states is almost nil.

I agree except about the second part. Who says it has to be equitable throughout the country? It is not now. If I want to live in a state that has higher tax rates, but also has a huge welfare system, I can do that. If I want to live in a state that wants to get its people off the welfare rolls and back to work, I can do that. Perhaps in 50 different ways, the best way can be found.

Funny how the right always talks about getting government out of your life, well, unless you are gay or want an abortion...

I am all for getting the government out of a gay person's life.

[scfire86]

Why cant someone who has already paid income tax on his money keep his money somewhere to keep from paying extra taxes? Lets change the tax code so people will keep their money here.

Because they benefit from all the things they get living in America.

Agreed. Romney's tax plan is much closer to this than Obama's.

Romney's plan is the usual nonsense that has led to record deficits and debt.

[Spencer534]

Because they benefit from all the things they get living in America.

There are so many people that receive those benefits that have paid nothing for them, whereas his income was already taxed. These are savings accounts for investments. There is no one (except Harry Reid who quickly withdrew it) saying he committed tax evasion.

Romney's plan is the usual nonsense that has led to record deficits and debt.

When has eliminating tax loopholes and simplifying the tax code led to record deficits and debt?

Here is a question for you: Why has President Obama started a White House Initiative for Educational Excellence for African-Americans? For Hispanics, Asian-Americans, etc.? Didnt we fight not so long ago to end separate-but-equal education? Shouldnt we improve education outcomes for all Americans without seeing the color of their skin?

[scfire86]

There are so many people that receive those benefits that have paid nothing for them, whereas his income was already taxed. These are savings accounts for investments. There is no one (except Harry Reid who quickly withdrew it) saying he committed tax evasion.

Not the point.

When has eliminating tax loopholes and simplifying the tax code led to record deficits and debt?

There is more to Romney's tax plan than that.

Here is a question for you: Why has President Obama started a White House Initiative for Educational Excellence for African-Americans? For Hispanics, Asian-Americans, etc.? Didnt we fight not so long ago to end separate-but-equal education? Shouldnt we improve education outcomes for all Americans without seeing the color of their skin?

What's your point? Are you saying that non-ethnic groups are being denied access to educational excellence?

[Spencer534]

There is more to Romney's tax plan than that.

Yes there are other smaller points, but those, by far, are the "meat" of the plan.

What's your point? Are you saying that non-ethnic groups are being denied access to educational excellence?

I dont think that, just like I do not think ethnic groups are being denied access. My point is twofold. When will the government stop institutionalizing racism and why is the federal government still involved in education?

[scfire86]

Yes there are other smaller points, but those, by far, are the "meat" of the plan.

Every analysis of Romney's plan shows that his budget only continues to bleed red ink. Tax cuts and defense spending hikes are proven recipes for increased debt.

I dont think that, just like I do not think ethnic groups are being denied access. My point is twofold. When will the government stop institutionalizing racism and why is the federal government still involved in education?

I don't see them institutionalizing racism. That's a great Limbaugh soundbite and not much else.

I always enjoy reading conservatives who are claiming some type of victimhood.

[Spencer534]

I always enjoy reading liberals who dont know how to read. Where have I said I (or anyone else) am claiming "victimhood". In fact, I stated that no one is being denied access. My point about racism comes from the fact that different races/ethnic groups are treated differently. We fought to abolish that thinking and the government perpetrates it by doing stuff like this.

So let me make sure I am clear. You support having groups given advantages based on their skin color or ethnic background? Really?

[scfire86]

I always enjoy reading liberals who dont know how to read. Where have I said I (or anyone else) am claiming "victimhood". In fact, I stated that no one is being denied access. My point about racism comes from the fact that different races/ethnic groups are treated differently. We fought to abolish that thinking and the government perpetrates it by doing stuff like this.

You answer your own question.

So let me make sure I am clear. You support having groups given advantages based on their skin color or ethnic background? Really?

Said no such thing. Please keep thinking that is what I meant. I give you credit for trying to force the argument into a syllogism.

More importantly it has no bearing why I'm voting to re-elect the president.

[ChiefKN]

Good for you!!! However, the reality is that conservatives have decided that public employees are overpaid and need to make significant givebacks in order to solve all those problems. I hope you don't mind taking even greater pay cuts. Because that is what is being proposed.

Or... the conservatives are responding to the public's desire to cut government spending. Considering that a good portion of that spending is salaries, that explains the cuts.

[ChiefKN]

Tax cuts and defense spending hikes are proven recipes for increased debt.

So, are you saying that our record debt is due to Obama cutting taxes and increasing defense spending?

[scfire86]

So, are you saying that our record debt is due to Obama cutting taxes and increasing defense spending?

Partly true. IMO, he should have let the Bush tax cuts expire. Which is what should happen later this year.

The Romney/Ryan plan defies logic and mathematics for any type of balanced budget into the forseeable (at least two decades) future.

What's been funny for me is watching conservatives. The president they supported for eight years left an absolute fiscal disaster when leaving office and now those same conservatives complain that he hasn't fixed it fast enough. While offering no workable plan.

[Spencer534]

The Romney/Ryan plan defies logic and mathematics for any type of balanced budget into the forseeable (at least two decades) future.

And when does Obama's plan balance the budget? NEVER! It decreases until 2018 and then starts rising again. He adds 6.7 Trillion over the next 10 years.

Meanwhile all he wants to do is increase entitlements. How will we pay for Medicare in the future?