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Thread: Why are you voting for whoever for President?

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Regardless, the contemporary conservative movement has made demonization of public employees their raison de etre.

    Deflect all you want, that fact is not changing.
    It's not deflection, it's an accurate picture of reality, something you're unable to grasp.

    The destruction of the public sector comes at the hands of the Democrat party, promising burgeoning benefits packages that are unsustainable. Obamunist Warren Buffet refers to public sector pensions as a "time bomb." And Fareed Zakaria, another card carrying member of Hope & Change, says the Democratic Party is wrong on the substance, clinging to its constituents rather than doing the right thing. Zakaria writes:
    In California, total pension liabilities--the money the state is legally required to pay its public-sector retirees--are 30 times its annual budget deficit. Annual pension costs rose by 2,000% from 1999 to 2009.
    and
    The accounting at the heart of government pension plans is fraudulent, so much so that it should be illegal.
    And Zakaria has done more than one piece on the subject.

    So the liberal plan is to drive governments into bankruptcy, clearly against the interests of public sector employees and retirees. Yet you accuse Republican government workers as having cognitive dissonance.
    The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of 'liberalism' they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened. --Norman Mattoon Thomas, 6 time presidential candidate for the Socialist Party of America

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    It's not deflection, it's an accurate picture of reality, something you're unable to grasp.

    The destruction of the public sector comes at the hands of the Democrat party, promising burgeoning benefits packages that are unsustainable. Obamunist Warren Buffet refers to public sector pensions as a "time bomb." And Fareed Zakaria, another card carrying member of Hope & Change, says the Democratic Party is wrong on the substance, clinging to its constituents rather than doing the right thing. Zakaria writes: andAnd Zakaria has done more than one piece on the subject.

    So the liberal plan is to drive governments into bankruptcy, clearly against the interests of public sector employees and retirees. Yet you accuse Republican government workers as having cognitive dissonance.
    Regardless, public employees are being demonized by the conservatives you support.

    Trying to blame it on democrats is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance. You make the assumption conservatives needed an excuse to be on the attack. The latest is this years flavor's of the decade. It's obvious you've not been paying attention. You believe pensions are a ticking bomb. Good for you, how much extra are you paying back to your employer to ensure yours is solvent? Zero is my guess. Like a typical conservative, you're all talk about someone else having to sacrifice.

    Naivete at it's finest.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-20-2012 at 12:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Freedom of speech works in both directions. The individual has the right to put the video on YouTube. The president (or any other citizen) has the right to criticize its content. No one is saying the creator of the video shouldn't be afforded that right. You are probably one of those that confuses criticism with censorship.

    I've noticed that is very common with conservatives.
    I disagree.

    I took the tone of the release different. To me, he was apoligizing for the video being released, and that, my friend, is wrong.

    In our country, we have the right to say whatever we wish about anyone's religion, without apology. The president should have HARSHLY critized the protestors for reacting the way they did, not the American that posted the video.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I disagree.

    I took the tone of the release different. To me, he was apoligizing for the video being released, and that, my friend, is wrong.
    I took the tone to not be one of apology.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    In our country, we have the right to say whatever we wish about anyone's religion, without apology. The president should have HARSHLY critized the protestors for reacting the way they did, not the American that posted the video.
    Where? You have freedom of speech (sort of). There is nothing that says you have the freedom of speech without the possibility of criticism. That is denying freedom of speech from others. The protestors are in their sovereign country. Not really the president's concern until they start harming American interests. Which I'm sure is now being addressed.

    You must find American civics hard. This is not a difficult concept.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Regardless, public employees are being demonized by the conservatives you support.

    Trying to blame it on democrats is the ultimate in cognitive dissonance. You make the assumption conservatives needed an excuse to be on the attack. The latest is this years flavor's of the decade. It's obvious you've not been paying attention. You believe pensions are a ticking bomb. Good for you, how much extra are you paying back to your employer to ensure yours is solvent? Zero is my guess. Like a typical conservative, you're all talk about someone else having to sacrifice.

    Naivete at it's finest.
    The progressives/Libs/Dems are driving us, like Lemmings, toward a financial cliff with Trillion Dollar deficits and pension funds that most city, county and state governments can't pay for. And scfire86 is the Head Lemming in Charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donethat View Post
    The progressives/Libs/Dems are driving us, like Lemmings, toward a financial cliff with Trillion Dollar deficits and pension funds that most city, county and state governments can't pay for. And scfire86 is the Head Lemming in Charge.
    Actually that isn't who is driving the US off the cliff.

    But it doesn't change the reality that conservatives have set about demonizing public employees.

    How much of your taxpayer funded paycheck are you willing to give up? There is a faction of conservatives that want all of it.
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    Well, everyone has their own interpretation and opinion on politics. To blindly say that any one party has all of our own best interest at heart is wrong. They don't. Both answer to their puppet masters, which are, ironically, the same donors at the national level.
    Our union (IAFF) generally supports democrats. All I can say in my experience is that democrats have gutted my department, not republicans. I can also say, with all due regard, that republicans have supported us as firefighters by action, not just lip service. There are plenty of other departments and public employees around this country that have had democrats gut them and attack them. I wonder how popular Raum Emanuel is right now...

    But, whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Actually that isn't who is driving the US off the cliff.

    But it doesn't change the reality that conservatives have set about demonizing public employees.

    How much of your taxpayer funded paycheck are you willing to give up? There is a faction of conservatives that want all of it.
    That's crap and you know it.

    The bottom libne is thAt in this country there are a healthy chunck of public employees whose benefit package is totally out of line wiitgh the non-public ... i.e business ... sector of America.

    Excessive vacation time. No, or very little employee cost sharing on the health side. And retirements that allow for one very big year fed by excessive overtime during that one year to determine the retirement payments, as an example, that are certainly not sustainable and certainly not in line with the private sector.

    If you call bringing of all that back into line with the public sector and making it sustainable, so be it. And yes, I'm one of those that benefit from it, but even I see it as excessive and unsustainable, and recognize that it does need to be changed.
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    Post deleted by user.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-20-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Romney simply stated that it was wrong for Obama to critize an American citizen for doing what we have the right to do ...post whatever we damn well choose to post on You=tube.
    And your point? I've never said Romney shouldn't be saying those things. He has every right to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    It's not our fault that the extremist Muslims go crazy anytime anyone says anything negaative about Allah. And an American president should never have to apologize for an American citizens that utilizes that right, like Obama did in his statement. Sorry, but that was simply WRONG.
    Which is within the president's right as it relates to free speech. Don't you agree?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I'm sick an tired of Obama apoligizing for the actions of the Muslims. Imagine if Chritians or Jews rioted and threatned to oput a "fuaqua" (or whatever the ignorant san******gs call it) every time somebody dared to say anything negative about Jesus.
    Please show where the president has used the word "apologize."

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    We have our rights as bestowed on us by our constitutution and we should never apoligize to anyone anywhere else in the world for expressiong whatever we feel like expressing whenever we damn well please.
    You're confused about the concept of free speech.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That's crap and you know it.

    The bottom libne is thAt in this country there are a healthy chunck of public employees whose benefit package is totally out of line wiitgh the non-public ... i.e business ... sector of America.

    Excessive vacation time. No, or very little employee cost sharing on the health side. And retirements that allow for one very big year fed by excessive overtime during that one year to determine the retirement payments, as an example, that are certainly not sustainable and certainly not in line with the private sector.

    If you call bringing of all that back into line with the public sector and making it sustainable, so be it. And yes, I'm one of those that benefit from it, but even I see it as excessive and unsustainable, and recognize that it does need to be changed.
    So how much of your taxpayer funded paycheck are you paying back to your employer so that your pay is in line with the private sector? Zero is my guess.

    BTW, I don't know about LA. In my jurisdiction, retirement is the average of the three highest years and OT is not part of the calculation.

    Please keep up with your nonsensical rants.

    Your comparison of private sector and public sector compensation is not valid. My wife works in the private sector. Her company has stock options and employee profit sharing. What part of the public sector has anything comparable?
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-20-2012 at 04:55 PM.
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    So how much of your taxpayer funded paycheck are you paying back to your employer so that your pay is in line with the private sector? Zero is my guess.

    I don't think pay is generally the issue. It's the benefits that are. And that includes mine.

    If tommarrow the department decided that we would pay a portion of our health care comparable with the private sector I wouldn't have an issue and wouldn't oppose it. If the law was changed tommarrow that we could be required by our employer to contribute more than the now current legal limit of 9% of our retirement, I wouldn't oppose it.


    BTW, I don't know about LA. In my jurisdiction, retirement is the average of the three highest years and OT is not part of the calculation.

    Same here. But I know for a fact that there are states where it's simply the highest year. And in those states all the overtime is funnelled to the guys in who are retiring that year, inflating the number used to determine retirement benefits as in those states overtime does count.

    New York happens to be one of those states, and there overtime does count. that's why so many FDNY members who were eligable retired after 2011. I believe there are at least 2 more northeastern states where that is also the case.

    I also know of one very large urban department where members are paid holiday pay even if they do not work the day. That is kind of stuff that needs to be eliminated.


    Please keep up with your nonsensical rants.

    Your comparison of private sector and public sector compensation is not valid. My wife works in the private sector. Her company has stock options and employee profit sharing. What part of the public sector has anything comparable?

    That's the choice that one makes when they decide to work in the public sector. That does not justify out-of-line benefits.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I don't think pay is generally the issue. It's the benefits that are. And that includes mine.

    If tommarrow the department decided that we would pay a portion of our health care comparable with the p[rivate sector I wouldn't have an issue. If the law was changed tommarrow that we could be required by our employer to contribute more than the now current legal limit of 9% of our retirement, I wouldn't oppose it.
    A "I don't pay anything back would have been adequate instead of a long winded rationalization. There is nothing stopping you from writing a check back to your employer to compensate for the cost of your benefit package.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Same here. But I know for a fact that there are states where it's simply the highest year. And in those states all the overtime is funnelled to the guys in who are retiring that year, inflating the number used to determine retirement benefits as in those states overtime does count.

    New York happens to be one of those states, and there overtime does count. that's why so many FDNY members who were eligable retired after 2011. I believe there are at least 2 more northeastern states where that is also the case.

    I also know of one very large urban department where members are paid holiday pay even if they do not work the day. That is kind of stuff that needs to be eliminated.
    All of which can be negotiated.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That's the choice that one makes when they decide to work in the public sector. That does not justify out-of-line benefits.
    That is the individual choice of the jurisdiction. If it is affordable, then being "out of line" is a subjective term.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    A "I don't pay anything back would have been adequate instead of a long winded rationalization. There is nothing stopping you from writing a check back to your employer to compensate for the cost of your benefit package.

    Your right, I probably could.


    All of which can be negotiated.

    Actually, it's the law for public sector employees in those states, not a contract agreement.



    That is the individual choice of the jurisdiction. If it is affordable, then being "out of line" is a subjective term.
    "Being out of line" is actually based on the feelings of the citizens as they are the ones paying the freight. And many of them are expressing that they are out of line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You believe pensions are a ticking bomb.
    It's not a "belief", it is a fact. The pension obligations of the People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornistan increased 20 fold in 10 years. If that isn't a ticking time bomb, then nothing is.

    State of California's Current GO Credit Ratings:
    Fitch Ratings: A-
    Moody's Investors Service: A1
    Standard & Poor's: A-

    NC has a AAA rating from all three. Only 6 other states have AAA ratings from all three: Delaware, Georgia, Maryland, Missouri, Utah and Virginia. We don't have collective bargaining here, and our pensions, while modest, are very well funded.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Good for you, how much extra are you paying back to your employer to ensure yours is solvent? Zero is my guess. Like a typical conservative, you're all talk about someone else having to sacrifice.

    Naivete at it's finest.
    The NC Local Governmental Employees’ Retirement System has a funding ratio average 99.44% for the last 10 years, and 99.6% for 2010. It's one of the best (in solvency terms) in the nation, so there is no need to pay extra. I know it's heart breaking for you liberals advancing the Cloward–Piven strategy in a hope to turn America into a socialist nation.

    The Federal entitlement programs are going broke. That's not politics, it's math.








    And to top the cake today, Congressionally censured tax cheat Democrat Charlie Rangel tells Romney ‘Americans pay their taxes, unlike you.’ Democrat Charlie Rangel was censured by the House of Representatives for a multitude of tax and ethics violations made while he was in charge of writing the nation’s tax policy as Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    It's not a "belief", it is a fact. The pension obligations of the People's Democratic Republic of Kalifornistan increased 20 fold in 10 years. If that isn't a ticking time bomb, then nothing is.
    So how much of your taxpayer funded salary do you contribute back to your employer? Since you claim to be so concerned about this ticking bomb.

    You're a conservative like Paul Ryan. You claim to care, while pocketing the money realizing that no one will hold you accountable.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-20-2012 at 08:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    "Being out of line" is actually based on the feelings of the citizens as they are the ones paying the freight. And many of them are expressing that they are out of line.
    Then that is when those citizens express their concern at the ballot box.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So how much of your taxpayer funded salary do you contribute back to your employer? Since you claim to be so concerned about this ticking bomb.
    Reading isn't your forté. NEITHER I NOR MY COWORKERS NEED TO CONTRIBUTE EXTRA MONEY TO THE NC RETIREMENT SYSTEM. IT IS SOLVENT. FULLY FUNDED. IT REQUIRES NO BAILOUT. THERE IS NO TIME BOMB IN THE NC RETIREMENT SYSTEM.

    And what you fail to understand, or intentionally ignore, is that once the paycheck hits my bank account, it's no longer tax payer money. It's my money. I provide X amount of services for Y amount of compensation.
    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    You're a conservative like Paul Ryan. You claim to care, while pocketing the money realizing that no one will hold you accountable.

    Again, a delirious Obama fanboi criticizing a conservative on something financial related. Remind me again when was the last time Obama or the Democrat controlled Senate approved a budget.
    Last edited by txgp17; 09-21-2012 at 02:13 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    So how much of your taxpayer funded salary do you contribute back to your employer? Since you claim to be so concerned about this ticking bomb.

    You're a conservative like Paul Ryan. You claim to care, while pocketing the money realizing that no one will hold you accountable.
    I guess that is your .. and the democratic solution. Have those currently working and paying contribute more to make up for those that do not contribute.

    And yes, I have no issues raising taxes on the middle class (and that includes me) and poor. Reduce top rates on the rich as it's thier money .. they deserve to keep more of it. Elimniate or reduce earned income credits and mortagage deductions.

    Rduce expenditures by shortening the amount of time folks can collect unemployment. Reduce programs to the poor. For many the "safety net" has become a way of life and that needs to change.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 09-21-2012 at 10:24 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Reading isn't your forté. NEITHER I NOR MY COWORKERS NEED TO CONTRIBUTE EXTRA MONEY TO THE NC RETIREMENT SYSTEM. IT IS SOLVENT. FULLY FUNDED. IT REQUIRES NO BAILOUT. THERE IS NO TIME BOMB IN THE NC RETIREMENT SYSTEM.
    Could you post the link that shows that?

    NC Pension Unfunded Liabilities

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    And what you fail to understand, or intentionally ignore, is that once the paycheck hits my bank account, it's no longer tax payer money. It's my money. I provide X amount of services for Y amount of compensation.
    I agree. However it is still funded by the taxes derived from someone else.

    Quote Originally Posted by txgp17 View Post
    Again, a delirious Obama fanboi criticizing a conservative on something financial related. Remind me again when was the last time Obama or the Democrat controlled Senate approved a budget.
    So what? A budget is only a guideline. What matters is whether funds are appropriated. And that is happening. In case you haven't noticed, the government has not shut down.
    Last edited by scfire86; 09-21-2012 at 10:33 AM.
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    Funny thing is the Fire & Police Retirement System here in LA is fully funded and solvent as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I guess that is your .. and the democratic solution. Have those currently working and paying contribute more to make up for those that do not contribute.
    What? This statement makes no sense given your faux concern. What is your alternative? A pay cut? How much of a pay cut are you willing to take to bring your compensation in line with the private sector? There is nothing stopping you from doing that now.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And yes, I have no issues raiasing taxes on the middle class and poor. Reduce top rates on the rich as it's thier money .. they deserve to keep more of it. Elimniate or reduce earned income credits and mortagage deductions.
    Proven formulas for fiscal disaster. It is the middle class that drives the economy. It isn't tax breaks for the rich. Never has been, anywhere, or anytime.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Rduce expenditures by shortening the amount of time folks can collect unemployment. Reduce programs to the poor. For many the "safety net" has become a way of life and that needs to change.
    Many conservatives in my locale say the same about public servants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    What? This statement makes no sense given your faux concern. What is your alternative? A pay cut? How much of a pay cut are you willing to take to bring your compensation in line with the private sector? There is nothing stopping you from doing that now.

    Never said that salary was an issue. In fact, in most places the salary is fair given the work. It's the retirement formulas in many places and benefits that are out of wack. And if they were reduced, I would understand.


    Proven formulas for fiscal disaster. It is the middle class that drives the economy. It isn't tax breaks for the rich. Never has been, anywhere, or anytime.

    So we just keep taking more and more of thier money? is that your idea. I guess the fact that the top 10% pays the VAST majority of all income taxes and 47% doesn't pay a dime (in fact most get more back than they pay) doesn't concern you?

    I'm glad you're not accountant.



    Many conservatives in my locale say the same about public servants.
    Funny thing is there are places where public servants are overpaid. You may just happen to live in one of those areas.

    As far as reducing programs for the poor and reducing unemployment, there comes a time when enough is enough and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of paying for folks who have made poor choices and have nothing but excuses.

    Unless we change the system it's going to destroy us.

    You probably support the Apple Store employees on sterike in France because they aren't getting food vouchers to eat while at work and a 13th month of pay (for no work). last I knew the employer wasn't responsible for buying your lunch or paying you for a month that doesn't exist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is there are places where public servants are overpaid. You may just happen to live in one of those areas.
    How do you figure? The cost of living is a little higher here than in Banjo, LA where you live.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As far as reducing programs for the poor and reducing unemployment, there comes a time when enough is enough and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of paying for folks who have made poor choices and have nothing but excuses.
    Like which poor choices? Like going to college? Many of the recently unemployed are college grads who lost their jobs due to the financial meltdown.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Unless we change the system it's going to destroy us.
    Moonbat paranoia. So how much of your taxpayer funded paycheck do you contribute back to your employer so that "we" are not destroyed? You seem to care so much, but seem uninterested in a personal solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You probably support the Apple Store employees on sterike in France because they aren't getting food vouchers to eat while at work and a 13th month of pay (for no work). last I knew the employer wasn't responsible for buying your lunch or paying you for a month that doesn't exist.
    Didn't know anything about it. That's an issue between they and their employer. I'm not an Apple person so I really don't care. Please continue to make assumptions about what I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Funny thing is the Fire & Police Retirement System here in LA is fully funded and solvent as well.
    Could you post a link for that claim?

    According to this report, the Louisiana Firefigher Retirement System shows an unfunded liability of $396,204,368 with a funding ratio of about 74%.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    How do you figure? The cost of living is a little higher here than in Banjo, LA where you live.

    And even adjusting for that there are public servants who are overpaid, though that is I beleive the exception and not the rule.


    Like which poor choices? Like going to college? Many of the recently unemployed are college grads who lost their jobs due to the financial meltdown.

    Poor choices ... Ummm let's think ...... Dropping out of high school, choosing to particiapate in criminal activties, having kids without being married. Most of the problem is the folks on welfare, not unemployment, though that is part of the issue. Bottom line is it's not my responsibility as a taxpayer to support an unemployed person for 96 weeks. It's not my responsibility to support somebody on welfare because THEY made poor choices. Call me cold, but it's simply not MY problem.

    Moonbat paranoia. So how much of your taxpayer funded paycheck do you contribute back to your employer so that "we" are not destroyed? You seem to care so much, but seem uninterested in a personal solution.

    Just stated I would be willing to pay more in taxes if that rates for the rich were reduced to spur groeth and investment, and those below me also paid more in taxes including completely reducing tax payments beyond those paid in in taxes. Reading comprehension issues, eh?

    If you really belive the math that shows that the current expenditures are unsustainable and SIGNIFICANt decreases in expenditures and modification of SS and medicare is needed NOW is "moonbat paranoia, you have a real problem dude.



    Didn't know anything about it. That's an issue between they and their employer. I'm not an Apple person so I really don't care. Please continue to make assumptions about what I think.
    It just shows the magnitude of the entitlement culture in Europe that is creeping into this country that the Dems seem to support in ever increasing entitlement programs, especially to the poor.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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