Thread: Ppe

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    This is listed as one of the FAQ in the AFG PowerPoint

    " We are requesting new PPE…what is the difference between “torn & tattered” and “obsolete?”

    What is FEMA's answer to the question?

    I know it says "PPE/SCBA must be two NFPA cycles or 10 years old to be considered “obsolete.”

    Do they say how bad gear must be to be considered "torn & tattered"?

    How much consideration is this given in the scoring?

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    Generally torn/tattered is under 10 but won't pass the safety inspection for interior use. Fun part is no one really gives advice on which way to enter things when you have stuff in both categories (or more than 2 in the drop-down menu). They don't want 2 entries with 1 showing 10 sets needing replacement because they're obsolete and another entry showing 10 sets needing replacement because they're torn/tattered, so pick based on age first then detail the torn/tattered info in the narrative. Saves space that way.

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    Hey Brian this is a little off topic but did you see the story on the Vol dept in PA that was destroyed after a truck ran into it? Sounded like it was near your old stomping grounds.

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    Hadn't seen it but looked it up, about 20 miles NE as the crow flies if that. Bucks was the old stomping grounds, Leithsville is barely over the border of Bucks into Northampton County. Been up that road many a time, there's a restaurant not far from there that we went to a few times that serves the King & Queen cuts, 6lb & 3lb. Even in the olden days that was a lot of prime rib to stuff down in one sitting, but always had leftovers for steak and eggs in the morning.

    One heck of a mess but 412 is steep and windy up around there as the story says. Sounds like the driver wasn't familiar with the area. That's a tough route to take in a regular vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcneill View Post
    This is listed as one of the FAQ in the AFG PowerPoint

    " We are requesting new PPE…what is the difference between “torn & tattered” and “obsolete?”

    What is FEMA's answer to the question?

    I know it says "PPE/SCBA must be two NFPA cycles or 10 years old to be considered “obsolete.”

    Do they say how bad gear must be to be considered "torn & tattered"?

    How much consideration is this given in the scoring?

    It is also rather perplexing that logically, and by literal definition, the only thing that "torn and tattered" could apply to is something made of "fabric" I.E. turnout gear. I never looked at my blue jeans as old and obsolete (even though physically I might actually be that), they needed to be replaced because they were torn and tattered. On the other hand my Tandy 102 is "old and obsolete" as compared to my latest laptop. Of course that's just my opinion, yours may vary!
    Kurt Bradley
    Fire/EMS/EMA Grant Consultant
    " Never Trade Skill for Luck"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mmcneill View Post
    This is listed as one of the FAQ in the AFG PowerPoint

    " We are requesting new PPE…what is the difference between “torn & tattered” and “obsolete?”

    What is FEMA's answer to the question?

    I know it says "PPE/SCBA must be two NFPA cycles or 10 years old to be considered “obsolete.”

    Do they say how bad gear must be to be considered "torn & tattered"?

    How much consideration is this given in the scoring?

    I called the help desk with this question during last years program. They told me that "old/obsolete" applies to turnout gear that is older than the 10 year NFPA standard's life span. It is the highest priority among PPE for replacement in AFG. The "torn/tattered" applies to less than 10 years old and worn to point in which safety for the user is compromised. This is the 2nd highest priority. They indicated that this was more of a consideration for high volume departments that could expect to see so much use that the gear will not last in safe condition for 10 years due to the extreme level of use and fire exposure.

    Like Brian said, you have to choose one or the other from the drop down box and then explain need and condition in the narative. I would suggest that whichever category makes up the majority of gear needing to be replaced should be the category selected. Not fair to claim old/obsolete if only 1 set of gear is over 10 years old and the rest is under this threshold.

    By the way they also said they would consider funding replacement of t/o gear that is 8 years old or greater if already replacing existing gear that is over the 10 year limit. The goal is 100% in NFPA compliant gear and recognizing delays from application period to award and purchasing, they don't want to have the department unable to be compliant immediately after receiving an award. This is not saying that 8 year old gear can be the basis for an old/obsolete application. Just that if replacing a large quantity of old/obsolete gear and a couple more sets of gear are at the 8 year mark during the application period, they can be applied for as well as the clearly old/obsolete gear. Definitely highlight the need and condition of this gear in the narative as well.

    Hope this is helpful.

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