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  1. #226
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    Thanks guys....got some good chuckles these last few pages....
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yup.

    It's a good thing you understand that injuring a volunteer has the potential to cost him, and more importantly his family, a lot of money, especially if he is injured operating out of his district where his department's medical insurance and workman's comp policy would likely not apply.
    If there is such a concern for getting injured, this is the wrong profession.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But that's not important as he has kept up the "traditions of the fire service".
    Which is of course a nonsense claim. Your belief is that fear of injury should allow one the rationalization to not act at all. Which is a much different standard.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Of course, that's not going to buy his family food or pay the rent, but that's really not that important after all.
    Then he (or she) should find something else to occupy their time instead of pretending to be a firefighter.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If you call that not being in the tradition of a selfless fireighter, so be it.
    Yup. That's what it is called. JFK had a sign on his desk that read "know thyself." Seems to us you've got that one down.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-13-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    If there is such a concern for getting injured, this is the wrong profession.

    The trick is for a volunteer this isn't a profession. the full-time job that pays the bills is. They are simply doing it to help the community. Helping the community shouldn't mean they have to accept an injury as part of the job, and not be able to work and pay the bills.


    Which is of course a nonsense claim. Your belief is that fear of injury should allow one the rationalization to not act at all. Which is a much different standard.

    You use the word fear. This isn't fear. this is about realizing the concequences to a volunteer member's family when an injury occurs and making the prevention of injuries an operational priority.


    Then he (or she) should find something else to occupy their time instead of pretending to be a firefighter.

    Maybe they should. or maybe the department should recognize the impact of injuries to a volunteer's family and eithere enatct additional wage and medical protections, such as department-funded subsadies to make up the difference between the workman comp's check and the volunteer's actual paycheck, like some department's have done, or operate in aless aggressive manner to minimize the chance of injuries, like others have done. Or both.

    Again, if a volunteer tells me he does not want to perform atask because he is concerned about injury, I fully respect that. That's not fear.



    Yup. That's what it is called. JFK had a sign on his desk that read "know thyself." Seems to us you've got that one down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    The trick is for a volunteer this isn't a profession. the full-time job that pays the bills is. They are simply doing it to help the community. Helping the community shouldn't mean they have to accept an injury as part of the job, and not be able to work and pay the bills.
    The public doesn't differentiate nor does it care when they need someone to help them. The risk of injury is part of the job from the time a unit is dispatched. I've had several of my colleagues whose careers were ended because the units they were riding were hit by careless motorists. Using your logic they would be justified in not responding because the roadways can be too dangerous.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You use the word fear. This isn't fear. this is about realizing the concequences to a volunteer member's family when an injury occurs and making the prevention of injuries an operational priority.
    You just restated what I wrote with a bunch of nonsense to rationalize your not doing your job.


    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Maybe they should. or maybe the department should recognize the impact of injuries to a volunteer's family and eithere enatct additional wage and medical protections, such as department-funded subsadies to make up the difference between the workman comp's check and the volunteer's actual paycheck, like some department's have done, or operate in aless aggressive manner to minimize the chance of injuries, like others have done. Or both.
    Or maybe they should do something else if they are that concerned about being injured by doing their jobs.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Again, if a volunteer tells me he does not want to perform atask because he is concerned about injury, I fully respect that. That's not fear.
    Of course you would. You also don't want to do anything. It makes perfect sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I know exactly what I will and will not do.
    Which is pretty much nothing other than wear the uniform and pretend you know what you are doing.
    Last edited by scfire86; 06-13-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    The public doesn't differentiate nor does it care when they need someone to help them. The risk of injury is part of the job from the time a unit is dispatched. I've had several of my colleagues whose careers were ended because the units they were riding were hit by careless motorists.

    So we do what we can to minimize that risks. Fewer interior operations. No operations in abondoned structures. Quicker pull out when situations go bad. Requiring PPE all the time - NO excuses. Drive slower. Stop fully at every single intersection. Fewer hot responses. Seatbelts. We simply do not need to be injuring 100,000 firefighters per year. That is simply unacceptable.

    Do you that probably sounds like not doing the job. To me it's simple risk management and injury reduction.




    You just restated what I wrote with a bunch of nonsense to rationalize your not doing your job.

    Again, how you define and I define the job are two very different things.


    Or maybe they should do something else if they are that concerned about being injured by doing their jobs.

    Or maybe we just make the fireground a safer place by minimizing risk.


    Of course you would. You also don't want to do anything. It makes perfect sense.

    I would hardly say I don't want to do anything but I would love to see the service realize they are taking risks in structures that simply are no longer justifiable due to fire load, construction and manpower.

    We need to significantly change the way we do business. Some departments get that. Others are working towards it. Sadly there are some that don't get it and likely never will.

    There are times that risk is justifable. Sadly, much of the risk we take is not.



    Which is pretty much nothing other than wear the uniform and pretend you know what you are doing.
    If that's what you say. It's not the case, but hey, say what you wish.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2012 at 05:40 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I have no issues with physicals as long as there is assistance to pay for them in rural VFDs that will not force them to take money away from an already limited budget to meet this mandate, and that there be some form of outside assistance to deal with the manpower losses that will result.

    That has been my position all along.
    Just admit that you are okay with that 400 pound firefighter dying of a heart attack from an easily detected and possibly fixable heart ailment because physicals cost too much. His death is more financially acceptable to you than finding a way to fund physicals. Do you realize how pathetic that sounds?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Just admit that you are okay with that 400 pound firefighter dying of a heart attack from an easily detected and possibly fixable heart ailment because physicals cost too much. His death is more financially acceptable to you than finding a way to fund physicals. Do you realize how pathetic that sounds?
    Tell me how a rural department operating on 30K is going to "find" a couple of hundred dollars per man to fund physicals?

    So what do we cut? The PPE that NEEDS to be replaced? The 30-year old SCBA on the first due engine? New radios that actually work? The brakes on that second out tanker that are a "little sketchy"?

    Tell me what is more important... the chance that he may die on the fireground from a cardiac issue or the chance that the 30-year old SCBA may finally fail in a fire, or the gear that should have been taken out of service will fail at the next response. Which one is the most severe risk?

    The fact is physicals would be a great thing. But so would gear that actually would pass inspection, modern SCBA, modern radios and apapratus with 100% reliable brakes. 30K won't buy all of that. In fact, it will buy very little. So which one is the priority?

    In the long run, firefighting is a personal choice and so are the concquences that go with it. maybe that physical is the responsibility of that firefighter, not the taxpayers. Maybe he should be getting his own physicals.
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  8. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Tell me how a rural department operating on 30K is going to "find" a couple of hundred dollars per man to fund physicals?

    So what do we cut? The PPE that NEEDS to be replaced? The 30-year old SCBA on the first due engine? New radios that actually work? The brakes on that second out tanker that are a "little sketchy"?

    Tell me what is more important... the chance that he may die on the fireground from a cardiac issue or the chance that the 30-year old SCBA may finally fail in a fire, or the gear that should have been taken out of service will fail at the next response. Which one is the most severe risk?

    The fact is physicals would be a great thing. But so would gear that actually would pass inspection, modern SCBA, modern radios and apapratus with 100% reliable brakes. 30K won't buy all of that. In fact, it will buy very little. So which one is the priority?

    In the long run, firefighting is a personal choice and so are the concquences that go with it. maybe that physical is the responsibility of that firefighter, not the taxpayers. Maybe he should be getting his own physicals.
    So you are actually saying here, in print, that a firefighter death from a heart attack is acceptable to you. You are also saying that that 400 pound firefighter, that any doctor, even a veterinarian, would say has no business on a fireground, is more responsible for his health and safety than the fire department is. Despite the fact that anyone with a lick of common sense would tell you the guy is a walking heart attack waiting to explode and die right there.

    Keep making excuses, keep shunning the repsonsibility "Oh Great and Powerful FIRE EDUCATOR." It is hysterical how you run from any danger that may cause you a hang nail but are perfectly okay with the obese tub of lard dropping over from a heart attack because physicals are too expensive. God you are now beyond pathetic and into pathological...
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  9. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    So what do we cut? The PPE that NEEDS to be replaced? The 30-year old SCBA on the first due engine? New radios that actually work? The brakes on that second out tanker that are a "little sketchy"?
    Why, the Fire Prevention budget of course!
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    If that's what you say. It's not the case, but hey, say what you wish.
    It's actually what you say. I'm sure you think you're being very clever in making it difficult to quote your posts. That's fine, it doesn't change the fact that you're disgrace to the fire service.

    But you already knew that.
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  11. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Tell me how a rural department operating on 30K is going to "find" a couple of hundred dollars per man to fund physicals?

    So what do we cut? The PPE that NEEDS to be replaced? The 30-year old SCBA on the first due engine? New radios that actually work? The brakes on that second out tanker that are a "little sketchy"?

    Tell me what is more important... the chance that he may die on the fireground from a cardiac issue or the chance that the 30-year old SCBA may finally fail in a fire, or the gear that should have been taken out of service will fail at the next response. Which one is the most severe risk?

    The fact is physicals would be a great thing. But so would gear that actually would pass inspection, modern SCBA, modern radios and apapratus with 100% reliable brakes. 30K won't buy all of that. In fact, it will buy very little. So which one is the priority?

    In the long run, firefighting is a personal choice and so are the concquences that go with it. maybe that physical is the responsibility of that firefighter, not the taxpayers. Maybe he should be getting his own physicals.
    Then just accept the fact that your joke of a department is staffed by jokes like you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Tell me what is more important... the chance that he may die on the fireground from a cardiac issue or the chance that the 30-year old SCBA may finally fail in a fire, or the gear that should have been taken out of service will fail at the next response. Which one is the most severe risk?
    You're kidding me, right? Like, this is a joke? I'm on Punk'd right now right? Ashton Kutcher is gonna run down the hallway any second and scream "WE GOTCHUUUU!!!!!!"

    Mr. "Death in the fire service is unacceptable. Injury in the fire service is unacceptable. Unnecessary risk anywhere in life is unacceptable.", Just said that it's okay for the fat guy to die on the fire scene, as long as the guy inside in his SCBA and turnout gear survives. You're ****ting me, right?

    How is allowing a 400lb man/woman/whatever, on the fire ground, without medical clearance not an unnecessary risk? Why is the 400lb "exterior operations only" mans life any less important than the guy you sent inside with $2,200 worth of brand new PPE, a $4,000 brand new SCBA, and a $2,000 fancy new radio?

    PLEASE, I BEG YOU, respond to this post. I would l-o-v-e, LOVE for everyone to see how you try and back peddle out of this one....
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So you are actually saying here, in print, that a firefighter death from a heart attack is acceptable to you. You are also saying that that 400 pound firefighter, that any doctor, even a veterinarian, would say has no business on a fireground, is more responsible for his health and safety than the fire department is. Despite the fact that anyone with a lick of common sense would tell you the guy is a walking heart attack waiting to explode and die right there.

    Keep making excuses, keep shunning the repsonsibility "Oh Great and Powerful FIRE EDUCATOR." It is hysterical how you run from any danger that may cause you a hang nail but are perfectly okay with the obese tub of lard dropping over from a heart attack because physicals are too expensive. God you are now beyond pathetic and into pathological...

    No, a firefighter death is not acceptable.

    But making a rural fire department dip into a budget that barely covers fuel and truck maintenance to pay for physicals is not the answer either. Rural fire departments simply do not have the money to pay for physicals that would likely detect the "underlying cardiac problem" in the example you have mentioned. All that would do is cut into the one or two sets of turnouts they may be able to replace this year or the modern SCBA they may be able to afford to purchase every year.

    Are there things that a department can do to ensure some level of fitness? Sure. Have the local EMS service perform vitals checks every 3 months or so a develop a guideline regarding BP and pulse. Do it in-house if you have medical personnel. if you have access to paramedics run 4-leads and 12-leads for anyone suspicious. Have the department do medical monitoring on-scene and track the vitals for later review. Do a pre-employment obstacle course to determine fitness levels. We have such a pre-employment physical at my VFD where they demonstrate the ability to perform specific tasks within a specific time frame, and if they can't, they are eligible for support but not line firefighting.

    I never said they should do nothing but to dictate a mandate that all fire departments irregardless of their budgets shall ....... will not solve any problems. It will only make the problems in other areas such as PPE, training, SCBA and communications worse, which actually may lead to failures and resulting injuries and deaths.

    It's not my place on either of my departments to make and determine policy. I have no input on matters such as this and quite honestly at this stage in my career I really care not to be in a position where I would be involved in these types of decisions. I enjoy being where I am and what I do and I am perfectly happy leaving these matters to the folks that want to be involved in these matters.

    The command staff has decided that we will not do ,physicals for volunteers and only pre-employment on career personnel. That is the decision of the command staff, and they call the shots.

    Bottom line is most volunteers are big boys, and I'm sure that 400 lb member knows he has issues, but he is a grownup and can decide for himself what he wants to do. Maybe I'm just a believer in that people can take responsibility for their own lives. Should the Chief have a discussion with him? Probably. But that's the job of the Chief, not a LT or Senior Firefighter. And last I checked, Chief not my title.

    Frankly, you should talk. Your willing to allow members operate in an abandoned structure for no reason other than that bull***" lines of "a building isn't empty until we say it is" or "because we are fireman and that's what we are SUPPOSED to do" is IMO just as irresponsible as your feelings regarding my stance on physicals. At least I support not throwing members into abandoned structures like cannon fodure just to maintain some idealistic image or some crap about tradition and pride.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2012 at 10:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Why, the Fire Prevention budget of course!
    I'm sure that any department operating on 30K doesn't have a fire prevention budget.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Then just accept the fact that your joke of a department is staffed by jokes like you.
    Neither of my departments run on 30K.

    My combo department runs on an operating budget of 800K with another 300K dedicated to capital savings.

    My volunteer department runs on 100K with 50K devoted to debt and capital savings.

    But a budget of 30k is not unusual in the rural departments from here to Mississippi and much of central LA.

    Tell them that they need to put less fuel in the trucks and spend that money on physicals. They'll tell you exactly what they think of that idea. And that includes the line firefighters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You're kidding me, right? Like, this is a joke? I'm on Punk'd right now right? Ashton Kutcher is gonna run down the hallway any second and scream "WE GOTCHUUUU!!!!!!"

    Mr. "Death in the fire service is unacceptable. Injury in the fire service is unacceptable. Unnecessary risk anywhere in life is unacceptable.", Just said that it's okay for the fat guy to die on the fire scene, as long as the guy inside in his SCBA and turnout gear survives. You're ****ting me, right?

    How is allowing a 400lb man/woman/whatever, on the fire ground, without medical clearance not an unnecessary risk? Why is the 400lb "exterior operations only" mans life any less important than the guy you sent inside with $2,200 worth of brand new PPE, a $4,000 brand new SCBA, and a $2,000 fancy new radio?

    PLEASE, I BEG YOU, respond to this post. I would l-o-v-e, LOVE for everyone to see how you try and back peddle out of this one....
    I have no idea what your funding is.

    First of all, MOST fire departments in this country do not do physicals for volunteers, so if this is such an issue with you, direct your comments to the NVFC and maybe you can stir some interest nationwide because there is no great interest in the volunteer fire service to implement mandated physicals.

    Would I love every department to be able to do physicals. Yes. But the fiscal reality of a VFD running on 20K, 30K or 40K is they are not likely buying any new gear for him to collapse in or new airpacks. They are barely keeping the trucks maintained, fueled and paying insurance.

    There is no money for physicals. I'll repeat it .. THERE IS NO DAMN MONEY FOR PHYSICALS.

    So in short they simply do not and likely never will have the option to give physicals even if they wanted to without cutting into vehicle maintenance, fuel or insurance, and maybe, just maybe the few bucks they have to buy one new set of PPE a year.

    That is the reality in the majority of the rural fire service and that will not change if there is suddenly a mandate. All it will do is create a huge fiscal problem that will lead to cuts in other areas.

    As I have said there is an element of personal responsibility and personal choice mixed in here. Maybe, just maybe, it's the responsibility of the person who wants to be a firefighter to find out on his own what his medical situation is. Maybe that is something that he should be checking on his own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Neither of my departments run on 30K.

    My combo department runs on an operating budget of 800K with another 300K dedicated to capital savings.

    My volunteer department runs on 100K with 50K devoted to debt and capital savings.

    But a budget of 30k is not unusual in the rural departments from here to Mississippi and much of central LA.

    Tell them that they need to put less fuel in the trucks and spend that money on physicals. They'll tell you exactly what they think of that idea. And that includes the line firefighters.
    None of your excuses change the fact that your department and you are both jokes and a disgrace to the fire service.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    None of your excuses change the fact that your department and you are both jokes and a disgrace to the fire service.
    Really.

    Given that my combo department is likely to be rated as a Class 2 from a Class 3 in the next few months, 4 of our members are instructors at LSU-FETI and in the last 5 years we have placed over 12 of our volunteers on career departments, I disagree.

    But hey, we all have opinions.

    Have a nice night.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Really.
    Yes, really!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given that my combo department is likely to be rated as a Class 2 from a Class 3 in the next few months, 4 of our members are instructors at LSU-FETI and in the last 5 years we have placed over 12 of our volunteers on career departments, I disagree.
    So what? According to you, certs are just pieces of paper. What really matters is that they have folks like you rationalizing not responding to emergencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But hey, we all have opinions.
    Yes, but mine (regarding you) are based upon what you have written. And you've yet to prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Have a nice night.
    Sweet dreams. I'll keep my fingers crossed that no one in Bossier Parish needs you, since you've made it clear you won't be responding. Especially if you think you might break a nail or get an owweee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, it's the responsibility of the person who wants to be a firefighter to find out on his own what his medical situation is. Maybe that is something that he should be checking on his own.
    This was exactly the answer I expected out of you. Thank you, you have confirmed what I originally thought. You are going to let the 400lb man die outside.

    Do us all a favor, as firefighters, and do everyone outside of where you live a favor too. Stay in your damn Parish. At least then the only people you have the potential to hurt or kill are your own kind.
    Last edited by Chenzo; 06-17-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    This was exactly the answer I expected out of you. Thank you, you have confirmed what I originally thought. You are going to let the 400lb man die outside.

    Do us all a favor, as firefighters, and do everyone outside of where you live a favor too. Stay in your damn Parish. At least then the only people you have the potential to hurt or kill are your own kind.
    chill out dude the other option is no one goes at all..... plus your from wisconsin your not cool!

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    HOLY SCHIT BURN! You got me good!

    The option isn't no one goes at all. You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. If the particular person in question is 400lbs of absolute fat, then the option is, using common sense and looking at the 400lb guy and going "look, you're not going to do a damn thing on the fire ground until we have medical clearance from a doctor. It's for nothing more than your safety, and the safety of your fellow firefighters. Unfortunately, as a department, we don't have the money to fund it. So if you want to stay on the department, and function as an active member, it is your responsibility to get that medical clearance and bring us the documentation."

    There's my response to you. I'm not going to get into a ****ing match with someone whose best line was
    Quote Originally Posted by EFD102 View Post
    chill out dude the other option is no one goes at all..... plus your from wisconsin your not cool!
    At least with LAFE, he'll try and back peddle or justify his absolutely ridiculous standpoint on, well, anything he "stands" for.

    *Disclaimer* Just for the record, if anyone out there thinks that I have this standpoint on "over weight" firefighters, because I'm some bean pole, or some protein chugging muscle head (no offense to the beanpoles, or protein chugging muscle heads), you're sadly mistaken. I'm a fairly bigger guy, but I've done my damndest to shed fat and put on muscle for years now, and I've proven on more than one occasion that I can do the job. Not just for my own personal health, but for the fact that I will not let my poor health, or lack of agility, strength, or endurance, be the death of one of my fellow firefighters. Whether it because I was too fat and had a heart attack, or because I wasn't strong enough or lacked the endurance to help get them out of a building. I simply cannot allow myself to let that happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    HOLY SCHIT BURN! You got me good!

    The option isn't no one goes at all. You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. If the particular person in question is 400lbs of absolute fat, then the option is, using common sense and looking at the 400lb guy and going "look, you're not going to do a damn thing on the fire ground until we have medical clearance from a doctor. It's for nothing more than your safety, and the safety of your fellow firefighters. Unfortunately, as a department, we don't have the money to fund it. So if you want to stay on the department, and function as an active member, it is your responsibility to get that medical clearance and bring us the documentation."

    And I would suspect in most departments, even those that do not provide physicals that would happen. I know on my combo department there would at least be a discussion reagrding medical history, and if the Deputy or Asst. Chief felt that there were any red flags, that may be required. On my volunteer department we do have a basic agility test which in all liklihood would also give us a red flag that would lead to a discussion, at a minimum.

    As I stated there are ways to get some basic information utilizing local free resources and/or agility testing. My issue is and always will be the funding required for these physicals, especially the ones that would detect an non-obvious underlying physical condition are simply not something that most VFDs, especially rural VFDs can afford without significant cutbacks in equally critical safety areas such as apparatus maintainece, PPE, training or communications.

    As far as not going, in some communities if you become to choosy reagrding physical condition, you very well may end up with a very limited response force that can essenatially do nothing on the fireground safely due to manpower restrictions.


    There's my response to you. I'm not going to get into a ****ing match with someone whose best line was


    At least with LAFE, he'll try and back peddle or justify his absolutely ridiculous standpoint on, well, anything he "stands" for.

    *Disclaimer* Just for the record, if anyone out there thinks that I have this standpoint on "over weight" firefighters, because I'm some bean pole, or some protein chugging muscle head (no offense to the beanpoles, or protein chugging muscle heads), you're sadly mistaken. I'm a fairly bigger guy, but I've done my damndest to shed fat and put on muscle for years now, and I've proven on more than one occasion that I can do the job. Not just for my own personal health, but for the fact that I will not let my poor health, or lack of agility, strength, or endurance, be the death of one of my fellow firefighters. Whether it because I was too fat and had a heart attack, or because I wasn't strong enough or lacked the endurance to help get them out of a building. I simply cannot allow myself to let that happen.
    And that's good, but what level of physical fitness can the volunteer fire service demand from the typical volunteer with a family given the run, administrative, maintainence and training requirements, as well as in some places the fundraising requirements. At what point are we simply demanding too much of volunteer personnel?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  24. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Yes, really!


    So what? According to you, certs are just pieces of paper. What really matters is that they have folks like you rationalizing not responding to emergencies.

    And where did I say we were not responding? The fact is a fire in abandoned structure does not need to be attacked from the interior. A brush fire does not need to be aggressivly attacked and can be allowed to burn to a defensive perimter. A vehicle fire that is heavily involved on arrival can be put out with a deck gun.And a small department with no training in and nospecialized equipment for confined space, water rescue or trench operations has no obligation to enter that confined space, water or trench.

    It's all about doing many things in the way that exposes members, especially volunteer members, to the least amount of risk and still performing rescues when feasible and reasonable. And yes, that does not mean all the time.


    Sweet dreams. I'll keep my fingers crossed that no one in Bossier Parish needs you, since you've made it clear you won't be responding. Especially if you think you might break a nail or get an owweee.
    You know damn well that I am not talking about the routine bumps, bruises, strains and mild sprains that are agrevatting but will not keep a member from colelcting his paycheck at his job. You know that I am talking about injuries that will keep a member out of work and will keep food off the table because they are not collecting a paycheck for those days missed from work.

    WE do have an obligation to make sure that volunteers are able to go to work after every run. That is soemthing that we owe to the husbands, wives and kids. Yes, it is family first, then the public. And that may mean backing off sooner than you would like or not performing operations that you think should be performed to minimize the chance of injury.

    Yes. We do have that obligation to our volunteer members.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  25. #250
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that's good, but what level of physical fitness can the volunteer fire service demand from the typical volunteer with a family given the run, administrative, maintainence and training requirements, as well as in some places the fundraising requirements. At what point are we simply demanding too much of volunteer personnel?
    To be in decent physical shape? That is no where near the point of demanding too much.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

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