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Thread: I'm getting a Pager?

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    You're kidding me, right? Like, this is a joke? I'm on Punk'd right now right? Ashton Kutcher is gonna run down the hallway any second and scream "WE GOTCHUUUU!!!!!!"

    Mr. "Death in the fire service is unacceptable. Injury in the fire service is unacceptable. Unnecessary risk anywhere in life is unacceptable.", Just said that it's okay for the fat guy to die on the fire scene, as long as the guy inside in his SCBA and turnout gear survives. You're ****ting me, right?

    How is allowing a 400lb man/woman/whatever, on the fire ground, without medical clearance not an unnecessary risk? Why is the 400lb "exterior operations only" mans life any less important than the guy you sent inside with $2,200 worth of brand new PPE, a $4,000 brand new SCBA, and a $2,000 fancy new radio?

    PLEASE, I BEG YOU, respond to this post. I would l-o-v-e, LOVE for everyone to see how you try and back peddle out of this one....
    I have no idea what your funding is.

    First of all, MOST fire departments in this country do not do physicals for volunteers, so if this is such an issue with you, direct your comments to the NVFC and maybe you can stir some interest nationwide because there is no great interest in the volunteer fire service to implement mandated physicals.

    Would I love every department to be able to do physicals. Yes. But the fiscal reality of a VFD running on 20K, 30K or 40K is they are not likely buying any new gear for him to collapse in or new airpacks. They are barely keeping the trucks maintained, fueled and paying insurance.

    There is no money for physicals. I'll repeat it .. THERE IS NO DAMN MONEY FOR PHYSICALS.

    So in short they simply do not and likely never will have the option to give physicals even if they wanted to without cutting into vehicle maintenance, fuel or insurance, and maybe, just maybe the few bucks they have to buy one new set of PPE a year.

    That is the reality in the majority of the rural fire service and that will not change if there is suddenly a mandate. All it will do is create a huge fiscal problem that will lead to cuts in other areas.

    As I have said there is an element of personal responsibility and personal choice mixed in here. Maybe, just maybe, it's the responsibility of the person who wants to be a firefighter to find out on his own what his medical situation is. Maybe that is something that he should be checking on his own.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.


  2. #242
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Neither of my departments run on 30K.

    My combo department runs on an operating budget of 800K with another 300K dedicated to capital savings.

    My volunteer department runs on 100K with 50K devoted to debt and capital savings.

    But a budget of 30k is not unusual in the rural departments from here to Mississippi and much of central LA.

    Tell them that they need to put less fuel in the trucks and spend that money on physicals. They'll tell you exactly what they think of that idea. And that includes the line firefighters.
    None of your excuses change the fact that your department and you are both jokes and a disgrace to the fire service.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    None of your excuses change the fact that your department and you are both jokes and a disgrace to the fire service.
    Really.

    Given that my combo department is likely to be rated as a Class 2 from a Class 3 in the next few months, 4 of our members are instructors at LSU-FETI and in the last 5 years we have placed over 12 of our volunteers on career departments, I disagree.

    But hey, we all have opinions.

    Have a nice night.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-13-2012 at 11:01 PM.
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  4. #244
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Really.
    Yes, really!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Given that my combo department is likely to be rated as a Class 2 from a Class 3 in the next few months, 4 of our members are instructors at LSU-FETI and in the last 5 years we have placed over 12 of our volunteers on career departments, I disagree.
    So what? According to you, certs are just pieces of paper. What really matters is that they have folks like you rationalizing not responding to emergencies.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    But hey, we all have opinions.
    Yes, but mine (regarding you) are based upon what you have written. And you've yet to prove me wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Have a nice night.
    Sweet dreams. I'll keep my fingers crossed that no one in Bossier Parish needs you, since you've made it clear you won't be responding. Especially if you think you might break a nail or get an owweee.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #245
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Maybe, just maybe, it's the responsibility of the person who wants to be a firefighter to find out on his own what his medical situation is. Maybe that is something that he should be checking on his own.
    This was exactly the answer I expected out of you. Thank you, you have confirmed what I originally thought. You are going to let the 400lb man die outside.

    Do us all a favor, as firefighters, and do everyone outside of where you live a favor too. Stay in your damn Parish. At least then the only people you have the potential to hurt or kill are your own kind.
    Last edited by Chenzo; 06-17-2012 at 11:49 AM.
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  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    This was exactly the answer I expected out of you. Thank you, you have confirmed what I originally thought. You are going to let the 400lb man die outside.

    Do us all a favor, as firefighters, and do everyone outside of where you live a favor too. Stay in your damn Parish. At least then the only people you have the potential to hurt or kill are your own kind.
    chill out dude the other option is no one goes at all..... plus your from wisconsin your not cool!

  7. #247
    Forum Member Chenzo's Avatar
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    HOLY SCHIT BURN! You got me good!

    The option isn't no one goes at all. You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. If the particular person in question is 400lbs of absolute fat, then the option is, using common sense and looking at the 400lb guy and going "look, you're not going to do a damn thing on the fire ground until we have medical clearance from a doctor. It's for nothing more than your safety, and the safety of your fellow firefighters. Unfortunately, as a department, we don't have the money to fund it. So if you want to stay on the department, and function as an active member, it is your responsibility to get that medical clearance and bring us the documentation."

    There's my response to you. I'm not going to get into a ****ing match with someone whose best line was
    Quote Originally Posted by EFD102 View Post
    chill out dude the other option is no one goes at all..... plus your from wisconsin your not cool!
    At least with LAFE, he'll try and back peddle or justify his absolutely ridiculous standpoint on, well, anything he "stands" for.

    *Disclaimer* Just for the record, if anyone out there thinks that I have this standpoint on "over weight" firefighters, because I'm some bean pole, or some protein chugging muscle head (no offense to the beanpoles, or protein chugging muscle heads), you're sadly mistaken. I'm a fairly bigger guy, but I've done my damndest to shed fat and put on muscle for years now, and I've proven on more than one occasion that I can do the job. Not just for my own personal health, but for the fact that I will not let my poor health, or lack of agility, strength, or endurance, be the death of one of my fellow firefighters. Whether it because I was too fat and had a heart attack, or because I wasn't strong enough or lacked the endurance to help get them out of a building. I simply cannot allow myself to let that happen.
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  8. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chenzo View Post
    HOLY SCHIT BURN! You got me good!

    The option isn't no one goes at all. You've just proven that you have absolutely no idea what the hell you're talking about. If the particular person in question is 400lbs of absolute fat, then the option is, using common sense and looking at the 400lb guy and going "look, you're not going to do a damn thing on the fire ground until we have medical clearance from a doctor. It's for nothing more than your safety, and the safety of your fellow firefighters. Unfortunately, as a department, we don't have the money to fund it. So if you want to stay on the department, and function as an active member, it is your responsibility to get that medical clearance and bring us the documentation."

    And I would suspect in most departments, even those that do not provide physicals that would happen. I know on my combo department there would at least be a discussion reagrding medical history, and if the Deputy or Asst. Chief felt that there were any red flags, that may be required. On my volunteer department we do have a basic agility test which in all liklihood would also give us a red flag that would lead to a discussion, at a minimum.

    As I stated there are ways to get some basic information utilizing local free resources and/or agility testing. My issue is and always will be the funding required for these physicals, especially the ones that would detect an non-obvious underlying physical condition are simply not something that most VFDs, especially rural VFDs can afford without significant cutbacks in equally critical safety areas such as apparatus maintainece, PPE, training or communications.

    As far as not going, in some communities if you become to choosy reagrding physical condition, you very well may end up with a very limited response force that can essenatially do nothing on the fireground safely due to manpower restrictions.


    There's my response to you. I'm not going to get into a ****ing match with someone whose best line was


    At least with LAFE, he'll try and back peddle or justify his absolutely ridiculous standpoint on, well, anything he "stands" for.

    *Disclaimer* Just for the record, if anyone out there thinks that I have this standpoint on "over weight" firefighters, because I'm some bean pole, or some protein chugging muscle head (no offense to the beanpoles, or protein chugging muscle heads), you're sadly mistaken. I'm a fairly bigger guy, but I've done my damndest to shed fat and put on muscle for years now, and I've proven on more than one occasion that I can do the job. Not just for my own personal health, but for the fact that I will not let my poor health, or lack of agility, strength, or endurance, be the death of one of my fellow firefighters. Whether it because I was too fat and had a heart attack, or because I wasn't strong enough or lacked the endurance to help get them out of a building. I simply cannot allow myself to let that happen.
    And that's good, but what level of physical fitness can the volunteer fire service demand from the typical volunteer with a family given the run, administrative, maintainence and training requirements, as well as in some places the fundraising requirements. At what point are we simply demanding too much of volunteer personnel?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    Yes, really!


    So what? According to you, certs are just pieces of paper. What really matters is that they have folks like you rationalizing not responding to emergencies.

    And where did I say we were not responding? The fact is a fire in abandoned structure does not need to be attacked from the interior. A brush fire does not need to be aggressivly attacked and can be allowed to burn to a defensive perimter. A vehicle fire that is heavily involved on arrival can be put out with a deck gun.And a small department with no training in and nospecialized equipment for confined space, water rescue or trench operations has no obligation to enter that confined space, water or trench.

    It's all about doing many things in the way that exposes members, especially volunteer members, to the least amount of risk and still performing rescues when feasible and reasonable. And yes, that does not mean all the time.


    Sweet dreams. I'll keep my fingers crossed that no one in Bossier Parish needs you, since you've made it clear you won't be responding. Especially if you think you might break a nail or get an owweee.
    You know damn well that I am not talking about the routine bumps, bruises, strains and mild sprains that are agrevatting but will not keep a member from colelcting his paycheck at his job. You know that I am talking about injuries that will keep a member out of work and will keep food off the table because they are not collecting a paycheck for those days missed from work.

    WE do have an obligation to make sure that volunteers are able to go to work after every run. That is soemthing that we owe to the husbands, wives and kids. Yes, it is family first, then the public. And that may mean backing off sooner than you would like or not performing operations that you think should be performed to minimize the chance of injury.

    Yes. We do have that obligation to our volunteer members.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

  10. #250
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that's good, but what level of physical fitness can the volunteer fire service demand from the typical volunteer with a family given the run, administrative, maintainence and training requirements, as well as in some places the fundraising requirements. At what point are we simply demanding too much of volunteer personnel?
    To be in decent physical shape? That is no where near the point of demanding too much.
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    You know damn well that I am not talking about the routine bumps, bruises, strains and mild sprains that are agrevatting but will not keep a member from colelcting his paycheck at his job. You know that I am talking about injuries that will keep a member out of work and will keep food off the table because they are not collecting a paycheck for those days missed from work.
    Where is that determined? Is a volunteer excused for not responding for fear of injury on a rainy day? Driving code 3 through traffic is dangerous, particularly when one is required to break an intersection. You've stated earlier that you would have no problem with someone not performing a task because that individual believed it to be too dangerous. When does that determination get made?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    WE do have an obligation to make sure that volunteers are able to go to work after every run. That is soemthing that we owe to the husbands, wives and kids. Yes, it is family first, then the public. And that may mean backing off sooner than you would like or not performing operations that you think should be performed to minimize the chance of injury.
    Yet you believe helping people who called in the emergency warrant no such consideration. That what is the point of you being a firefighter?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Yes. We do have that obligation to our volunteer members.
    We can tell. You've stated on more than one occasion your indifference to the public.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    To be in decent physical shape? That is no where near the point of demanding too much.
    The individual owes that to the community he has sworn to serve. People expect emergency personnel to have some level of physical ability. If emergency personnel become part of the incident, there is no point in having them.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  13. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    To be in decent physical shape? That is no where near the point of demanding too much.
    Descent physical shape? You're right, they should be in descent shape. But that being said, I understand if a volunteer simply does not have the time to make that happen.

    But there are posters that seem to believe that volunteers should spend an hour or two in the gym every day to be in peak physical shape. In a perfect world, that would be nice. In the real world, many attempt to spend as much time in the gyn as they can. And for some here, that likey isn't enough.

    Funny this should come up today, as my Captain who I work with training the members in my VFD have decided that all summer lomg, our members will be working outside, in PPE, performing physical tasks so that thier physical fitness, and mental toughness will improve.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-15-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Descent physical shape? You're right, they should be in descent shape. But that being said, I understand if a volunteer simply does not have the time to make that happen.
    Bovine scat, excuses excuses...

    But there are posters that seem to believe that volunteers should spend an hour or two in the gym every day to be in peak physical shape. In a perfect world, that would be nice. In the real world, many attempt to spend as much time in the gyn as they can. And for some here, that likey isn't enough.
    Nobody ever said that volunteers should spend two hours a day in the gym... you are spinning bovine scat again.

    Funny this should come up today, as my Captain who I work with training the members in my VFD have decided that all summer lomg, our members will be working outside, in PPE, performing physical tasks so that thier physical fitness, and mental toughness will improve.
    I hope you are joining them... or do you have an excuse like a bummed shoulder?
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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Bovine scat, excuses excuses...

    For the volunteer working a full-time and part-time job, and family commitments, and trying to balance response, training and possibly admin and/or fundraising responsibilities at the FD, it's not bovine scat.

    It's reality.



    Nobody ever said that volunteers should spend two hours a day in the gym... you are spinning bovine scat again.

    There are at least 2 posters that believe that, and have posted, that all firefighters should be warriors and at the peak of fitness. That takes time in the gym.



    I hope you are joining them... or do you have an excuse like a bummed shoulder?
    As I co-plan and co-deliver training, yes, I will be involved. They will be doing the bulk of the physical labor, but both him and I will be in gear and SCBA more than normal as the training will become much more hands-on, for at least the next 3 months.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    As I co-plan and co-deliver training, yes, I will be involved. They will be doing the bulk of the physical labor, but both him and I will be in gear and SCBA more than normal as the training will become much more hands-on, for at least the next 3 months.
    Why don't you just admit that you want to be able to wear the uniform and be thought a hero, but want zero responsibility for what the job entails.

    Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    They will be doing the bulk of the physical labor, but both him and I will be in gear and SCBA more than normal as the training will become much more hands-on, for at least the next 3 months.
    Unless they just don't feel like is safe for them to participate. Of course how dangerous can it be practice being a yard breather?
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  18. #258
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    For the volunteer working a full-time and part-time job, and family commitments, and trying to balance response, training and possibly admin and/or fundraising responsibilities at the FD, it's not bovine scat.

    It's reality.
    Reality? I work full time at the FD, hold three per diem jobs (all fire and ems related) and have a car detailing venture on the side. I too have family commitments, yet I find time to get some excercise in daily, whether it be working in the yard (spent the morning trimming the rosebushes and pulling weeds in the flower garden area), walking the dogs (I do about an average of 2 miles a day with them) and go into the gym at the firehouse when I can.. even if it is for just 15 to 20 minutes between calls, inspections, training, etc.

    Once again.. you are maknig bull$#!t excuses.
    Last edited by DeputyChiefGonzo; 06-16-2012 at 01:47 AM.
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  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And that's good, but what level of physical fitness can the volunteer fire service demand from the typical volunteer with a family given the run, administrative, maintainence and training requirements, as well as in some places the fundraising requirements. At what point are we simply demanding too much of volunteer personnel?
    So let me see if I have this right. Once again you want absolutely no standards for YOUR volunteers. The totally obese, out of shape 400 pound member is a body filling a slot. Because filling slots, and being inclusive, is far more important than actually providing professional, quality, efficient fire protection for the citizens you supposedly protect.

    We owe it to our community to have firefighters that are physically capable of doing the job. That doesn't necessarily mean spendin 2 hours a day in the gym. It means maintaining an appropriate body weight, eating properly, and doing enough physical activity to remain able to do the demandin task of being a firefighter. I don't spend hours in the gym, but I do spend hours on my property doing hard physical labor. Cutting down trees and hauling away the wood, tilling and planting a garden, building fences, doing remodeling and construction. I also swim and ride my bike regularly. Am I an Adonis? Nope. But I am physically cxapable of doing the hard work of firefighter.

    My demands for volunteers include my not having to visit somebody's wife, husband, mom, dad, daughter, son, significant other or anyone else, to tell them that their loved one will not be coming home, EVER. Especially if the reason they aren't coming home is they were so pitifully out of shape they died of a heart attack essentially doing nothing at the scene.

    I will not apologize for my stance on this. Because to me saving the lives of our firefighters is not a slogan, it is not a neat idea to banty around on forums, and it for damn sure isn't a game. If you really care you will find a way to make those nedical evals happen. Have you even tried to work a deal with a local doctor or clinic? How about staggering years? Half one year half the next? Not as good as everyone every year but at least it will get done.
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  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Reality? I work full time at the FD, hold three per diem jobs (all fire and ems related) and have a car detailing venture on the side. I too have family commitments, yet I find time to get some excercise in daily, whether it be working in the yard (spent the morning trimming the rosebushes and pulling weeds in the flower garden area), walking the dogs (I do about an average of 2 miles a day with them) and go into the gym at the firehouse when I can.. even if it is for just 15 to 20 minutes between calls, inspections, training, etc.


    Once again.. you are maknig bull$#!t excuses.

    Neither of my departments have significant issues with line personnel - volunteer or career - bing significantly out of shape. Obviously some are better than others.

    My combo department has a fully equipped workout room with an elliptical, treadmills, bikes and weights (free and a machine) with a big screen TV and nice stereo system which makes it comfortable to work out in. Do we require it? No. And honestly we shouldn't. Do we encourage it? Yes. And we have spent a fair amount of money to equip it so it is important to us.

    My VFD will be moving equipment into the old training room once we move into our new central Station in a few weeks. It will not be nearly as elaborate as the facility at my combo department but it will give them some equipment to workout with.

    Most of our members do a fair amount of physical activity either at their FT jobs or as recreation, so as I said, it's not a major issue, but once again, I'm going to take what a volunteer will give me and not demand more than they reasonably can.

    Unfortunately most rural VFDs in this area have neither the space in their stations for a gym or the money to purchase equipment for one.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-16-2012 at 05:31 AM.
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