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Thread: Cities that don't need paid personnel but have them..

  1. #81
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post

    Naaaaa, especially given that I know of many VFDs that will outperform some small career departments every single time.
    I was referring to the response rate of the department. That is what the citizen expects when they call.

    I know of no VFD's that would outperform my old department. In any way shape or form.

    Another reason I'm glad I live here instead of there.
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  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by scfire86 View Post
    I was referring to the response rate of the department. That is what the citizen expects when they call.

    I know of no VFD's that would outperform my old department. In any way shape or form.

    Another reason I'm glad I live here instead of there.
    Your old department would hardly be considered small.
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  3. #83
    Forum Member scfire86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Your old department would hardly be considered small.
    Just like your opinions would hardly be considered intelligent or informed.
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  4. #84
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    After a small local city had to pay 50K to each career member, plus pay a hefty fine several years ago, they had our parish attorney look into the matter and he determined that we could be asked to respond as volunteers off-duty.

    He did determine that if it was mandated that we respond, that would be completly different situation.

    The fact is they believe, based on that legal opinion, that we can respond, if we wish, as such. And I have no issues responding to incidents close to my home or major incidents without pay.
    And of course there is no implied coersion that if you want promotion or to go to outside trainings you will volunteer is there LA? OF COURSE THERE IS BECAUSE YOU SAID SO IN AN EARLIER TOPIC!! So much for WILLINGLY volunteering. That is extortion, plain and simple. "OH NO! You don't HAVE to volunteer back. But just so you know these other opportunities will go to those that do." What a frigging joke you and you "volunteering" back BS is.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    And of course there is no implied coersion that if you want promotion or to go to outside trainings you will volunteer is there LA? OF COURSE THERE IS BECAUSE YOU SAID SO IN AN EARLIER TOPIC!! So much for WILLINGLY volunteering. That is extortion, plain and simple. "OH NO! You don't HAVE to volunteer back. But just so you know these other opportunities will go to those that do." What a frigging joke you and you "volunteering" back BS is.
    Now that we are civil service, promotion within the career staff is done through testing.

    As far as those who respond, obviously, the more somebody responds back the more likely it is that the advanced training will be utilized.

    The fact is this is very common in this area as a whiole in the non-unionized fire districts. It's also the way this department has operated since it's inception, and as of now, none of the career members has any issues with it as they know they will get response in return.
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  6. #86
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    I can't help but shake my head at the nonsense in both of the posts below.


    scfire86:

    Why don't just admit it that vollies are really pretty worthless and any city that has them would be better off buying fire insurance for all its citizens instead of having the facade of fire protection.


    LaFireEducator:

    Naaaaa, especially given that I know of many VFDs that will outperform some small career departments every single time.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  7. #87
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Now that we are civil service, promotion within the career staff is done through testing.

    As far as those who respond, obviously, the more somebody responds back the more likely it is that the advanced training will be utilized.

    The fact is this is very common in this area as a whiole in the non-unionized fire districts. It's also the way this department has operated since it's inception, and as of now, none of the career members has any issues with it as they know they will get response in return.
    So since your district has ALWAYS black mailed its paid guys into volunteering back it is okay?

    Of course the paid guys aren't going to bitch, they know you will assist in selling them down the river.
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  8. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    So since your district has ALWAYS black mailed its paid guys into volunteering back it is okay?

    Of course the paid guys aren't going to bitch, they know you will assist in selling them down the river.
    Ya, that's something we've always done.

    Funny the guys don't complain about when they're talking among themselves.

    It really doesn't matter if you see an issue with it. The FT staff knows that this is the way that things operate, and according to the parish attorney, there is nothing illegal, and nobody on the FT staff has an issue with it.

    As far as me selling folks down the river ... Whatever dude.
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  9. #89
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    Hold up there buddy. Lets properly attribute the quote you made here, I NEVER said such a thing nor would I. SCfire86 I believe made the statement. Not me.
    It was SCFire, my quote boxes must have gotten mixed up. My apologies, no harm meant or intended.
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  10. #90
    Let's talk fire trucks! BoxAlarm187's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LVFD301 View Post
    The VAST majority of my volunteers have a 70% response rate or better.
    I'm curious, what is your annual call volume?
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  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I'm curious, what is your annual call volume?
    I was going to ask that as well as that is one heck of response rate.
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  12. #92
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya, that's something we've always done.

    Funny the guys don't complain about when they're talking among themselves.

    It really doesn't matter if you see an issue with it. The FT staff knows that this is the way that things operate, and according to the parish attorney, there is nothing illegal, and nobody on the FT staff has an issue with it.

    As far as me selling folks down the river ... Whatever dude.
    Dude you wanted to discipline that guy on a ladder, outside of a structure for grabbing that baby.

    You have said repeatedly you would discipline your FD members for acting outside of your fire district off duty.

    What do you expect people to think when you make comments like those?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Not in the opinion of our command staff.
    They are wrong.
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  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Ya, that's something we've always done.

    Funny the guys don't complain about when they're talking among themselves.

    It really doesn't matter if you see an issue with it. The FT staff knows that this is the way that things operate, and according to the parish attorney, there is nothing illegal, and nobody on the FT staff has an issue with it.
    It really doesn't matter what your career guys think or even your parish attorney thinks. The only view that counts is the federal agency responsible for this matter. I guarantee that they won't share yours on the matter.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Granted, a VFD may be slower getting out the door but in many cases a VFD can put more bodies on the fireground than a small career department.

    As an example, in my last VFD we put far more bodies on the fireground than the small combo (really primarily career as most of the volunteers have been driven away) department mentioned earlier via AMA during the day and just our response at night.

    In fact, at night, we were able to put more bodies on the fireground when even compared to the neighboring city department covering 45,000 residents even when we exclude the 2 AMA apparatus that would be assigned 6PM-6AM.

    We also did far more public education than either department.
    You do realize that there is a big difference between putting "bodies" on the fireground and putting firefighters on the fireground. In my area, for the most part, the VFDs are pretty good at putting a lot bodies on the fireground, but they're also pretty good at burning down houses too. We may put fewer bodies on the fireground, but we are certainly more efficient.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Dude you wanted to discipline that guy on a ladder, outside of a structure for grabbing that baby.

    Who was not in PPE. Sorry but I have a very low tolerance for 100% preventable injuries, especially if that Dude was a volunteer and just put his famaly's financial situation in jeapordy.

    That's called looking out for the well being of the members when they develop tunnel vision and forget how critical it is to take the time to be safe dispite the stuation around you.

    That is the role of senior personnel


    You have said repeatedly you would discipline your FD members for acting outside of your fire district off duty.

    Never said they would be disclipined.

    I do advise them NEVER to perform in situations outside of the district where there is a liklihood of injury due to the finaincail risks they are taking, but they are not disciplined.

    I make them very aware of the concequences, but in the end, the decsion to act or not to act is thier's.


    What do you expect people to think when you make comments like those?

    In this business it's very easy to put the mission before thier safety and the financial needs of thier famalies. It's my job as a senior man to watch out for them and do what we need tgo do to ensure that they go home, all the time.
    Last edited by LaFireEducator; 06-20-2012 at 05:15 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bones42 View Post
    My take on his mention of brownouts was that when questioned why the FD was slower to respond or unable to accomplish all tasks...they mention brownouts and closures instead of asking for mutual aid from local areas. For a FD that is fighting for staffing...that would make sense.
    If a department has exhausted all of its resources, then mutual aid should be the next step if more assistance is needed. However, in many cases, asking for a mutual aid response isn't the appropriate step. If a brownout means that most of the assignment is going to be 2-3 minutes longer than normal to arrive, going to mutual aid doesn't always mean that they will be closer and/or faster to arrive on scene. Why would you need to call them if your own units would still be faster to arrive?

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireMedic049 View Post
    You do realize that there is a big difference between putting "bodies" on the fireground and putting firefighters on the fireground. In my area, for the most part, the VFDs are pretty good at putting a lot bodies on the fireground, but they're also pretty good at burning down houses too. We may put fewer bodies on the fireground, but we are certainly more efficient.
    That wasn't an issue with my last VFD.

    Man for man, I would put them against most career departments.
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  19. #99
    Forum Member FyredUp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    That wasn't an issue with my last VFD.

    Man for man, I would put them against most career departments.
    Including your exterior only guys that absolutely no career FD has or allows?
    Crazy, but that's how it goes
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    To learn how to love, and forget how to hate

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Not in the opinion of our command staff.
    The same one's who hired and keep you? Ahhh....
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