The danger of LAFE's way of thinking

[dfwfirefighter]

The worst kind are those that know they don't know but attempt to bluff their way through.

Add (to the above statement) new and/or inexperienced firefighters who don't know what they don't know and you have a recipe for disaster.

That was one of the points I was trying to get LaFireEducator before he "tapped out". Maybe he saw the error of his ways and is rethinking his "Law of Averages" Training Program? Or, maybe we delved into a few areas that were out of his comfort zone.

[FyredUp]

Add (to the above statement) new and/or inexperienced firefighters who don't know what they don't know and you have a recipe for disaster.

That was one of the points I was trying to get LaFireEducator before he "tapped out". Maybe he saw the error of his ways and is rethinking his "Law of Averages" Training Program? Or, maybe we delved into a few areas that were out of his comfort zone.

You can't get through to Bobby. He doesn't care what anyone thinks but him.

[CaptOldTimer]

I go away for a couple of weeks and this bribble still going on.

[tree68]

I am seeing trend, when it comes to vollies'; those that grouse the loudest about not being treated as an equal or a "professional", are the quickest to feel they have no need to meet even the most basic requirements as a firefighter. The excuses dreamed up and put forth is almost criminal....

As a volunteer - it's my observation that in many areas the fire department is still working on that transition from being a social organization that fights fires to a public safety organization and all that it entails.

Some people have a real problem making that transition, and all too often they are the folks with the political power in the organization. Enthusiasm is suspect and anyone who wants to bring any sort of progress into the mix becomes a pariah.

Even younger members will toe the old line, if they want to be accepted. They'll meet the requirements, whatever they may be, but don't expect them to strike off in new directions.

You can't go over their heads, because the mayor is probably a member of the fire department, too. And very likely a member of the "clique."

Time will provide the catalyst, if some enlightened members stick to their guns as the older members leave/die/move to Florida.

[tajm611]

I agree with everything you just said tree. I agree 100%. You have a constant tug of war between those who want to be a volunteer FIRE DEPARTMENT and those who want it to remain a get together or a hang out spot. Just looking through the minutes of a local volly, I read more about when and where they can drink on drill nights than what was drilled on. It's a pitiful state and only harms those trying to be seen a legitimate source of fire protection.

[LaFireEducator]

Add (to the above statement) new and/or inexperienced firefighters who don't know what they don't know and you have a recipe for disaster.

That was one of the points I was trying to get LaFireEducator before he "tapped out". Maybe he saw the error of his ways and is rethinking his "Law of Averages" Training Program? Or, maybe we delved into a few areas that were out of his comfort zone.

No, I didn't "tap out".

I have been monitering but I have been on vacation .. so trying to get away from the everyday stressors for a little while, including FH.


Honestly though, I have said what i needed to say, and so have you. You know where I stand and I know where you stand. And more discussion isn't going to change that.

[scfire86]

I agree with everything you just said tree. I agree 100%. You have a constant tug of war between those who want to be a volunteer FIRE DEPARTMENT and those who want it to remain a get together or a hang out spot. Just looking through the minutes of a local volly, I read more about when and where they can drink on drill nights than what was drilled on. It's a pitiful state and only harms those trying to be seen a legitimate source of fire protection.

Which is exactly what the vollies were in my old department. Whenever any of us would ask if they were going to actually drill they would immediately complain to my BC and DC claiming harassment.

Like LAFE, they were a disgrace to the fire service.

[tajm611]

Which is exactly what the vollies were in my old department. Whenever any of us would ask if they were going to actually drill they would immediately complain to my BC and DC claiming harassment.

Like LAFE, they were a disgrace to the fire service.

Yeah, they exist but you do realize that isn't the pulse of the volunteer service, right? They are as small of a group as the "horrible, anti-volly career department", they exist but are not indicative of the average point of view. To take that one department you've had dealings with and stereotype ALL volunteers as such, is very.........right-wing-like.

[BigGriffC12]

Yeah, they exist but you do realize that isn't the pulse of the volunteer service, right? They are as small of a group as the "horrible, anti-volly career department", they exist but are not indicative of the average point of view. To take that one department you've had dealings with and stereotype ALL volunteers as such, is very.........right-wing-like.

But unfortunately, when the public, or even elected officials see the very few..whose POV's look like Las Vegas at night, or the grossly overweight who wear the find em hot leave em wet Tshirts, or even worse the people who decal their POV's with their particular dept's logo, or wear their dept. Tshirt in public and act out of control..That is what the public sees. How hard is it to answer a phone appropriately? or go to wally world and buy a pair of black/navy slacks or cargos and a pair of black boots...or at least a nice pair of jeans for when you do PR..

The quiet ones are the ones who go un-noticed while these yahoos draw attention to themselves and make the rest of us look bad to not only our career brothers, but the people who we seek support in the form of volunteer recruitment, or financial support..

1 bad apple ruins the bunch..on a large scale, esp. in this day and age with social media.

[tajm611]

True, and I don't disagree one bit, but I have no control over that. I do, however, have some say on the education of my state's volunteer service. If I had the power, I'd make it harder (and thusly, more prestigious) to join a local volunteer company. I WISH I had a department like one I know where people actually move closer to it just to be able to join. This can only happen when some sort of standard is introduced. When you make a department's standard "if you can fit through the door" then you will have that problem. When you allow members to make christmas trees out of their vehicles, that'll happen. I've watched a new chief come in and tell his people that the department will have the same basic guidelines and standards as his career department. I watched people walk out. I also watched quality people walk in. It works. You demand excellence and you will get excellence.

Department shirts shouldn't come in xx-tarp. I blame no one but the officers of departments like that. A drinking club with a fire fighting problem has no place in my fire service. I know that comes off as arrogant but if everyone treated the fire service like it was THEIR fire service, much of this bull**** would stop.

[Miller337]

I go away for a couple of weeks and this bribble still going on.

D@MN glad to see you C.O.T., yeah this is the never ending greek tragedy. Can we go drink now? Please?

[fire5555]

We should be aggressive - NOT reckless.

http://www.firehouse.com/news/107454...-to-brush-fire

aggressive? reckless? or just slow down??

[Bones42]

http://www.firehouse.com/news/107454...-to-brush-fire

aggressive? reckless? or just slow down??

or mechanical failure? or damaged road? or ?????

[tajm611]

Or careless citizen, rubber necker, ******* on a bike?

Crashes happen. That's why we're here. We're not immune.

[fire5555]

BETTER said:::::::::


http://www.firehouse.com/article/104...k-injury-death

[tajm611]

Cool story.

Still a pointless interjection, however.