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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I have seen recruits come through the Fire Academy and less than a year later they are back taking Fire Instructor 1 because they want to teach at the Academy.

    Personally, I feel that one should have at least 3 to 5 years on the job before even thinkng about taking that step.
    When I went through rookie school, all of the instructors were seasoned folks with alot of time on the department. They were as respected in the field as they were to us wide-eyed, wet-behind-the-ears rookies. As a matter of fact, the "unspoken rules" at the time were "don't even try to get out the academy to be an instructor unless you have 1) been a a busy, 'hot' station; and 2) have at least a million billion years on the department".

    My instructors were very "tenured" - i.e. in their 50's and 60's, but man did these guys KNOW the job. They taught us alot of things that one typically only learns with experience. These guys fought fire in an era that I'll never have the benefit of experiencing. The bottle line is that experience gave them... well.. "experience".

    Now days, brand new officers are sent out to the academy to become instructors. I'm not saying that these "new" guys won't give it there all but when you have someone who spent most of their career on an ambulance, it's hard to really teach someone who is almost as "green" as the new officer is.
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  2. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I have seen recruits come through the Fire Academy and less than a year later they are back taking Fire Instructor 1 because they want to teach at the Academy.

    Personally, I feel that one should have at least 3 to 5 years on the job before even thinkng about taking that step.
    How do you put it mr Gonzo? ---bing-frickin-o - We have that issue here in Arkansas -I bet Whitt Murphy would have a fit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I have seen recruits come through the Fire Academy and less than a year later they are back taking Fire Instructor 1 because they want to teach at the Academy.

    Personally, I feel that one should have at least 3 to 5 years on the job before even thinkng about taking that step.
    I'll go even farther than that. I don't believe anyone should be a certified FF2 without at least 2 or 3 years on the job. The fact is, in Wisconsin anyways, som parts of FF2 assume fireground experience and even doing certain command functions like size-up and first in reports. No brand new firefighter has the skill base to be able to do those things properly.

    I do agree with you 100% that if you have less than one year of experience taking the Instructor's course is wrong. That would not and DOES NOT happen at the tech college I teach for. The state has standards on job experience and courses required before you are allowed to teach.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I have seen recruits come through the Fire Academy and less than a year later they are back taking Fire Instructor 1 because they want to teach at the Academy.

    Personally, I feel that one should have at least 3 to 5 years on the job before even thinkng about taking that step.
    I've seen that too.....I personally think it should be at least 10 years.

    NYS doesn't have a time requirement, as long as you have completed the required courses, you can apply for NYS certification.

    My job however has requirements. One would be lucky to get to the Rock with 10 years. Usually its 15-20 year guys....and lately its mostly Lts and Capts with time. Our first line supervisors course suffices the instructor requirements, I believe top level for NYS and level 1 for NFPA.
    Last edited by VinnieB; 08-06-2012 at 03:10 PM.
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    We have the same problem and to add to the problem is that a Chief can write a letter and get them in a instructor class with less than a year on. I love the young pups that 'teach' by reading the slide and answering every question with 'I'll get back to you on that', which means I don't have a clue and you will forget that you ask me a question. The instructor will not have to look up the answer that they should have known the answer to in the first place.

    Simply put if you are don't know the job then you shouldn't be teaching the job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    I have seen recruits come through the Fire Academy and less than a year later they are back taking Fire Instructor 1 because they want to teach at the Academy.

    Personally, I feel that one should have at least 3 to 5 years on the job before even thinkng about taking that step.
    I agree 100% with this sentiment. I would much rather be taught by the salty seasoned guy with real life experience rather than a guy who is real good at memorizing and regurgitating the material. It's real easy to pick the latter out as they usually have a hard time answering questions that are not straight text book questions.
    I also think the same rule should apply when it comes to being an officer. My old department before I transferred out of my original company were starting talks of sending me to officer classes a short time after I got off probation. I flat out told them I was in no way ready to be an officer and would never consider it with at least 4 to 5 years experience under my belt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    I'll go even farther than that. I don't believe anyone should be a certified FF2 without at least 2 or 3 years on the job. The fact is, in Wisconsin anyways, som parts of FF2 assume fireground experience and even doing certain command functions like size-up and first in reports. No brand new firefighter has the skill base to be able to do those things properly.

    I do agree with you 100% that if you have less than one year of experience taking the Instructor's course is wrong. That would not and DOES NOT happen at the tech college I teach for. The state has standards on job experience and courses required before you are allowed to teach.
    You guys must go by a different standard for FF2. Here NPQ FF2 is quickly becoming part of rookie schools and more or less being used as the lowest level of certification for new members. And I can think of nothing in the cirriculum we teach for FF2 that should be resrved for guys with time on the job.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    You guys must go by a different standard for FF2. Here NPQ FF2 is quickly becoming part of rookie schools and more or less being used as the lowest level of certification for new members. And I can think of nothing in the cirriculum we teach for FF2 that should be resrved for guys with time on the job.
    Indeed. My son (MD, career and volunteer) finished FF1 and FF2 (MFRI) virtually back to back.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    You guys must go by a different standard for FF2. Here NPQ FF2 is quickly becoming part of rookie schools and more or less being used as the lowest level of certification for new members. And I can think of nothing in the cirriculum we teach for FF2 that should be resrved for guys with time on the job.
    FF2 includes NFIRS, preplans, using the radio to give size ups, and doing on scene command functions. To me those are all skills that a "Rookie" would not be engaged in. Your opinion and operations may vary.

    Many here take them back to back also.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 08-09-2012 at 05:59 PM.
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