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Thread: Another "what were they thinking" video

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    Default Another "what were they thinking" video

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=avI-Ibut1SY#!

    There are those who wil justify this... and we wonder why the fire service isn't taken seriously....
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=avI-Ibut1SY#!

    There are those who wil justify this... and we wonder why the fire service isn't taken seriously....
    Good find. I totally agree.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

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    I particularly liked the yard breather backing up the nozzleman...

    Sometimes natural selection doesn't work nearly fast enough.
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    Pretty typical rural trailer fire. Might better let it burn.

    Can't defend the folks on the nozzles, though.

    At least they saved the turkey fryers...
    Opinions my own. Standard disclaimers apply.

    Everyone goes home. Safety begins with you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=avI-Ibut1SY#!

    There are those who wil justify this... and we wonder why the fire service isn't taken seriously....
    And just out of curiousity, how many times have you responded to a rural trailer fire with a rural fire department?
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And just out of curiousity, how many times have you responded to a rural trailer fire with a rural fire department?
    Just out of curiosity, how is that relevant Mr. Everybody Goes Home? You watched the video right? I'm not one to arm chair but come on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ljm View Post
    Just out of curiosity, how is that relevant Mr. Everybody Goes Home? You watched the video right? I'm not one to arm chair but come on...
    Limited resources. Limited firefighting.

    They appeared to be working exterior within the limits of their resources.

    I agree the guy in front, not in PPE, should not have been in the smoke, but I suspect the guy on the BC corner was a civilain, and most likely the homeowner as he appeared to be using a garden hose.
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    Mask up, go in the front door and push the fire out the end of the trailer. Simple straight forward tactics. And exactly the way I would have approached this fire.

    My bet is the guy on the hose line is the chief.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-28-2012 at 11:56 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    Limited resources. Limited firefighting.

    They appeared to be working exterior within the limits of their resources.

    I agree the guy in front, not in PPE, should not have been in the smoke, but I suspect the guy on the BC corner was a civilain, and most likely the homeowner as he appeared to be using a garden hose.
    Horseschit LA - Obama needs to hire you to make excuses for him. LA - you like to play the salty ole volly with rural limited resources card. I throw the BS flag. LA -I started out (in the seventies)with a mid sixties vintage 1-1/4 kaiser truck with what was called a "class 9 " skid unit. We added a 57 seagrave and a homeade tanker at a later date. Never once did we let our limited resources affect our training or want to. We "cut our suit from the cloth we had" Any body with a basic knowledge of fire behavior would try to "cut " that fire off. We never had the mindset of "well any response is better than nothing"
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Horseschit LA - Obama needs to hire you to make excuses for him. LA - you like to play the salty ole volly with rural limited resources card. I throw the BS flag. LA -I started out (in the seventies)with a mid sixties vintage 1-1/4 kaiser truck with what was called a "class 9 " skid unit. We added a 57 seagrave and a homeade tanker at a later date. Never once did we let our limited resources affect our training or want to. We "cut our suit from the cloth we had" Any body with a basic knowledge of fire behavior would try to "cut " that fire off. We never had the mindset of "well any response is better than nothing"
    I see 2 members in PPE, and only 1 in an SCBA. Maybe there were more personnel on-scene, but they aren't visbiable and for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to assume that is the case.

    Based on what I see, they simply do not have the manpower to safely perform an interior attack, escpecially on an older mobile home.

    Are you suggesting they should be operating interior?

    Obviously, they had limited resources. It appears they they operated as such and by the way, it appears that they did save the majority of the contents of the trailer.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And just out of curiousity, how many times have you responded to a rural trailer fire with a rural fire department?
    Nice try, Bobby...

    We have 4 mobile home parks in the city, and we have had fires in just about all of them during my career.

    The fact is... when I posted this I knew that you would defend it in one way or another.. you chose to by using a wise @$$ comment.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    I see 2 members in PPE, and only 1 in an SCBA. Maybe there were more personnel on-scene, but they aren't visbiable and for the purposes of this discussion, I'm going to assume that is the case.

    Based on what I see, they simply do not have the manpower to safely perform an interior attack, escpecially on an older mobile home.

    Are you suggesting they should be operating interior?



    Obviously, they had limited resources. It appears they they operated as such and by the way, it appears that they did save the majority of the contents of the trailer.

    Yes that is an interior fire attack or at least it is where I come from it is and yes we haul better than 80% of our water and yes we have at least 8 trailer parks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Horseschit LA - Obama needs to hire you to make excuses for him. LA - you like to play the salty ole volly with rural limited resources card. I throw the BS flag. LA -I started out (in the seventies)with a mid sixties vintage 1-1/4 kaiser truck with what was called a "class 9 " skid unit. We added a 57 seagrave and a homeade tanker at a later date. Never once did we let our limited resources affect our training or want to. We "cut our suit from the cloth we had" Any body with a basic knowledge of fire behavior would try to "cut " that fire off. We never had the mindset of "well any response is better than nothing"
    Brother, I hear what you saying, been where you were.

    My first volly FD, which I joined in 1977, had a 1950 Ford F7 with a 500 gpm Barton American front mount as first out. Second out was a 1937 Ford Darley 500 gpm pumer. Our tender was a 1949 Mack EFU model converted fuel truck. We had 4 scba, and not enough turn out gear if the entire FD showed up. But that didn't stop those that showed up from doing the job. Those with out gear did pump ops and bottle changes and things like that out of the hot zone.

    We didn't cry about how bad things were we set out to make them better. A couple of us bought our own gear. Then we scrounged more from other FDs, we bought surplus from the federal property program, we fund raised, and we petitioned the village board for more funding. We started small with our staffing, I thing we had 12 actually active members, and most days we were lucky to muster 6 for a fire.

    Now we run a 2005 2000gpm HME Rescue Engine, a 1985 Pierce 1500 gpm engine, a 1992 Monroe truck tender 1000gpm front mount/ 1500 gallon tank, and a 1984 5/4 ton GMC 70 gpm brush truck. We have state of the art PPE and SCBA and 22 members, most trained to FF1, some to FF2, some to Driver Operator, some to Instructor, some to Officer, and many members with all kinds of varied outside the department training. You see you actually can affect change if you really, really, want to. But I understand whining for many is far easier.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeputyChiefGonzo View Post
    Nice try, Bobby...

    We have 4 mobile home parks in the city, and we have had fires in just about all of them during my career.

    The fact is... when I posted this I knew that you would defend it in one way or another.. you chose to by using a wise @$$ comment.
    And what is your staffing? What is your water supply?

    I see 2 FFs in PPE and likely a rural water operation.

    With that staffing, should be defensive all the way.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Fyred --- OK city "donated" (I think they were dug out of the trash) a bunch of old cotton duck wool lined knee length bunker coats to us. When they were wet , they would buckle your knees.
    And LA - the way I was raised -having little was no excuse for doing little --- it was an incentive to work harder and to better yourself.
    ?

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    I seem to recall seeing this video before. I think it was an non-FF complaining about the lack of training, professionalism and whatnot of the 'primary' fire department for the area. I also recall the second - better funded department showing up (with gear + SCBA's) and being sent away as 'Not Needed'.

    Perhaps someone who is better with the search features can find that thread.

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    Oh - and for the record, in this day and age with grants - there is NO excuse for an organization to attempt to be a fire department without the proper PPE for all of its members. No turnouts - no excuse.

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    Beaverton, AL

    Population - 226

    45% of the population 45 or older

    Median Income $12,782

    Not many folks. Not much in the way of income.

    What do you suggest they do Gonzo????????
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And just out of curiousity, how many times have you responded to a rural trailer fire with a rural fire department?
    Enough to know 3 things:

    1) That trailer fire is easily an example of when an interior attack should be done. The fire could be hit VERY safely from the hallway that is common in trailer homes. Final overhaul could be done from the outside and involves removing the remaining siding and smodering debris, more than likely from the outside.
    2) The resident's possesions in the unburned portion of the trailer more than liely represent everything he owns and are probably not insured. So whatever we save by making that interior attack helps them get back on their feet that much quicker.
    3) It is obvious the trailer is junk and will be demolished and hauled away. Putting out the fire here has less to do with saving the traier and more to do with saving what the occupants own. I know LA, stuff isn't worth risking lives. I have fought enough trailer fires to know the most likely avenue of fire spread is in the ceiling. So we have to get in, knock down the main fire and QUICKLY, pull ceiling in that hall way to insure the fire isn't rocking over our heads. You simply CAN'T do that from the outside in your blue jeans and t-****.

    I am sure you will adamantly disagree with me on my tactics and my reasons. I won't be surprised.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Fyred --- OK city "donated" (I think they were dug out of the trash) a bunch of old cotton duck wool lined knee length bunker coats to us. When they were wet , they would buckle your knees.
    And LA - the way I was raised -having little was no excuse for doing little --- it was an incentive to work harder and to better yourself.
    And who says this department isn't trying to do that.

    What exactly, by the way, did they do wrong?

    They saved the majority of the contents of an older mobile home. Given the 2-3 members I see on scene, that's actually a damn good stop.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    Fyred --- OK city "donated" (I think they were dug out of the trash) a bunch of old cotton duck wool lined knee length bunker coats to us. When they were wet , they would buckle your knees.

    Oh believe me I understand, we had some military surplus green cotton duck bunker pants that weighed a ton when wet!

    And LA - the way I was raised -having little was no excuse for doing little --- it was an incentive to work harder and to better yourself.

    This part of your post has my nomination for post of the DECADE! It is so like how I was raised. We do what we have to do with what we have and will strive to be better.
    I like how you think!!
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    LA - I guess I get confused when I hear these terms like interior and exterior thrown about. We always did what we thought needed done in the best/safest manner that we could. And YES - on that fire with the visible resources , I would have had NO problem with going in the front door about 6 feet and for lack of a better term "holding" the fire to one end. I would then have the outside "bobbettes" take a cip saw,get a little ahead of the fire and make a net slice through the siding (both sides) and have my "outside" guys work it from un burned back to the burned. And I get a kick out of you quizzing 1524 on water supply. Most of the time (on small dwellings)if you fight fire instead of smoke water supply is not an issue.
    Disclamer - the tactics I suggested were assuming that I was working with people trained to bobbette standards. In my small rural department we PROABLEY would have just gone in the front door and pushed it out one end -im guessing the bedroom door was closed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Enough to know 3 things:

    1) That trailer fire is easily an example of when an interior attack should be done. The fire could be hit VERY safely from the hallway that is common in trailer homes. Final overhaul could be done from the outside and involves removing the remaining siding and smodering debris, more than likely from the outside.

    I see 2 personnel in gear in the video. Are you suggesting 2 perosonnel make entry in a older mobile home? That being saud, based on the stop, it wouldn't surprise me if there was an interior attack.

    2) The resident's possesions in the unburned portion of the trailer more than liely represent everything he owns and are probably not insured. So whatever we save by making that interior attack helps them get back on their feet that much quicker.

    So possessions are potentially worth our lives if you have a very limited number of people on scene and an older mobile home, which is nothing but a poor-man's flashover chamber?

    Again based on the stop, they very well may have done that. if not, they did accomplish the goal of stopping the fire without going exterior with what appears to be very limited personnel. very good for them.

    3) It is obvious the trailer is junk and will be demolished and hauled away. Putting out the fire here has less to do with saving the traier and more to do with saving what the occupants own. I know LA, stuff isn't worth risking lives. I have fought enough trailer fires to know the most likely avenue of fire spread is in the ceiling. So we have to get in, knock down the main fire and QUICKLY, pull ceiling in that hall way to insure the fire isn't rocking over our heads. You simply CAN'T do that from the outside in your blue jeans and t-****.

    And what id all they have is blue jeans? Sorry, but based on the population I doubt they have very much in the way of funding.

    I am sure you will adamantly disagree with me on my tactics and my reasons. I won't be surprised.
    No.

    With plenty of personnel this would be asimple interior attack fire.

    But I don't see plenty of people in the video. If keeping our people safe means losing the home due to staffing, so be it.
    Train to fight the fires you fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And what is your staffing? What is your water supply?

    I see 2 FFs in PPE and likely a rural water operation.

    With that staffing, should be defensive all the way.
    How the heck much water do you need to knock down a single wide trailer? I would think in this situation total knock down, from the interior would have taken well less than 500 gallons and more likely less than 200. The majority of water used would be during overhaul and that is generallynot an emergent operation.

    Our staffing would be 4 to 6 on the first engine, and likely 2-4 on the second during the day, with 1 or 2 in the tender. This is initially, more would arrive as they left work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaFireEducator View Post
    And what is your staffing? What is your water supply?

    I see 2 FFs in PPE and likely a rural water operation.

    With that staffing, should be defensive all the way.
    Since you asked... as a career FD, minimum of 13, max of 19 including the Deputy.

    The first due Engine Company to the mobile home parks is staffed with an officer and 2 minimum, if the Ladder company is in service at that station I can put 5 people on the scene first due, and for the record...there have been times where we have gone defensive on a mobile home fire and protected the exposures.

    Back to the video in point... you have no idea what their staffing is or their water supply, scene safety and control is nowhere to be found, yet you defend it.
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