Like Tree4Likes
  • 2 Post By slackjawedyokel
  • 1 Post By scfire86
  • 1 Post By FIREMECH1

Thread: Half staff flag

  1. #1
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Posts
    2,048

    Default Half staff flag

    I know I am gonna get flamed for being a "meanie" , but I am old enough to remember seeing the flag at half staff after president Kennedy was killed. It was a sobering sight. I know it is a bad thing that 12 moviegoers got murdered , but is it on the same level as when the leader of the free world got killed? Is this just more of the same thought process that hands out trophys for all teams? Im sorry but the meaning of lowering the American flag is being watered down.
    DeputyMarshal and Mr. D. like this.
    ?

  2. #2
    Forum Member
    DeputyMarshal's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    2,638

    Default

    I agree completely. We drop the flag to half staff far too easily anymore. This has badly diluted the importance of the symbol.
    "Nemo Plus Voluptatis Quam Nos Habant"

    The Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.

  3. #3
    Forum Member
    Tipys's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    244

    Default

    You both may refer to your age in your post. But I truly think you both lack the knowledge or common sense of why and when we put the flag at half mass.

    This is easily the most disrespectful posts I have ever seen on this board.
    RIP Hela

    "You have to do better then your best."
    BUD's instuctor Class 234


    "A man who won't die for something is not fit to live."
    Martin Luther King, Jr

  4. #4
    Forum Member
    scfire86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    HB
    Posts
    10,301

    Default

    I'm old enough to remember JFK's assassination. I don't mind flags being lowered to half staff for the moviegoers in Aurora, CO.
    FIREMECH1 likes this.
    Politics is like driving. To go forward select "D", to go backward select "R."

  5. #5
    Forum Member
    bcjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    106

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tipys View Post
    You both may refer to your age in your post. But I truly think you both lack the knowledge or common sense of why and when we put the flag at half mass.

    This is easily the most disrespectful posts I have ever seen on this board.
    I respectfully disagree. Lowering the flag was originally reserved for Presidents and high govt. officials. In recent times, it has evolved to where it is today, and I don't think it is all that bad.

    The original post was a question and appeared to me to be seeking opinions, thus not necessarily disrespectful.
    everyonegoeshome.com

  6. #6
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    I agree, it's started down the same path firefighter funerals and our LODD standards have traveled...
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  7. #7
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Most of you know my respect for our National Flag. With that, I have no problem with lowering the flag to half staff for 5 days. What happened in Aurora was a National travesty. The Nation as a whole, is effected by this tragic event. As well, military personnel were also victims.

    The next thing we'll probably see, is the complaining of why each local community lowers their flag to half staff for a fallen hero, that died in combat.

    Times have changed from the 60's to today. We have more respect for life today, than we did 50 years ago.

    FM1
    firecat1 likes this.
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  8. #8
    MembersZone Subscriber
    tajm611's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    2,071

    Default

    I agree, mech, to a certain extent. I will never say that Aurora wasn't a tragedy of massive proportions but is it really on par with an assassination or even a major loss of life in combat? I also have little problem or objection to lowering the flag but the question remains, when does a tragedy become a national tragedy? Again, I mean no disrespect to the lives lost in Colorado but how does it compare to last year when we lost 31 troops in one crash? I saw very little, and I'm only speaking locally, in regard to flying at half-mast at what I think is a national tragedy.

    The American populace has always had a problem knowing when to draw the line. I hope it never reaches the same level where we are expected to lower our flag for a coked out singer and no one pays attention to the continuous loss of life over seas.
    ‎"I was always taught..." Four words impacting fire service education in the most negative of ways. -Bill Carey

  9. #9
    Forum Member
    FIREMECH1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    HUSKER LAND
    Posts
    2,425

    Default

    Our Governor ordered flags at half mast for the RPG hit of the 31 for 3 days. Locally, we do what we can, for fallen military personnel. We even dropped the flag for an Iowan this past weekend, out of respect for our neighbor. Usually not done.

    I'll be the first to bitch about dropping the flag when it becomes flagrant, or blatantly unneeded. As said, I have no issue with this tragedy, or the VT one, or Von Maur (local, and didn't happen, 9 killed).

    As said, it is a different time period as well.

    I do somewhat agree with you though. Where is the line drawn, as to who we DO honor, Nationally. Locally, any and all that have fallen in combat. Nationally, outside of mass military personnel deaths, high gov't officials, etc. Do we need one for 30 people that died in a bus crash, or 500 in a plane crash, no.

    FM1

    EDIT: To answer your question on a coked up singer, no, I will not drop my flag, under any condition.
    Last edited by FIREMECH1; 07-23-2012 at 08:22 PM. Reason: Clarification.....
    I'm the one Fire and Rescue calls, when they need to be Rescued.

    Quote Originally Posted by EastKyFF
    "Firemens gets antsies. Theys wants to goes to fires. Sometimeses they haves to waits."

  10. #10
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by slackjawedyokel View Post
    I know I am gonna get flamed for being a "meanie" , but I am old enough to remember seeing the flag at half staff after president Kennedy was killed. It was a sobering sight. I know it is a bad thing that 12 moviegoers got murdered , but is it on the same level as when the leader of the free world got killed? Is this just more of the same thought process that hands out trophys for all teams? Im sorry but the meaning of lowering the American flag is being watered down.

    I know I am stepping out onto a cracked glass walkway by saying this, but I agree. People die every day and yes it is a shame and loss, but these visitors of a movie theater are just victims of another shooting. I have always felt the lowering of the flag is reserved for fallen heroes. When you lower the flag for the death of 12 people that were murdered in amass shooting, IMO, that takes away the relevance of it being lowered for a fallen hero.


    Don't get me wrong, the 12 should be remembered, but what's next? Are we going to drape flags over their coffins? Give them a 21 gun salute? Honor guard?

    It is sad when people die, but HONORS needs to be reserved for those that are being HONORED.

    This goes the same for funeral processions. Out of respect I will pull over for them. But I think it is an odd thing to do. It is written in my WILL that a procession NOT be done. There is no need for the whole town to stop, just because I am dead. Pack my ashes up and go home.

    BTW we are the only culture to do this.


    Please remember that this is just my personal opinion. Sorry if you disagree.
    Last edited by Mr. D.; 08-18-2012 at 06:04 PM. Reason: type'o

  11. #11
    Forum Member
    Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Americans dropped the flag to half mast after the Colombia disaster. 7 people died then, which is less than the Colorado attack. Should the flag have been dropped then?
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

  12. #12
    Forum Member

    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    KENTUCKY
    Posts
    410

    Default

    I agree the lowering of the flag is being diminished in value due to the way that honor has been applied to way too many people. Here in KY, we lower the flag from sunup to sunset on the day of a funeral for a soldier or Marine KIA who is either a KY native, or if the unit he was serving with is based in KY. I'm OK with that. For just this past week, the governor ordered the flags down for the entire period of time between the death and funeral (3 + days) for the governor's chief of staff, who I failed to see any reference to military service at all in his obit. I had a hard time with that one.

  13. #13
    Forum Member
    CaptOldTimer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 1999
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,257

    Default

    How many times has your so called president ordered the US Flag to be flowed a half staff for any military personnel being killed in action?



    ZERO!

    Stay Safe and Well Out There....

    Always remembering 9-11-2001 and 343+ Brothers

  14. #14
    Forum Member
    Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    How many times has your so called president ordered the US Flag to be flowed a half staff for any military personnel being killed in action?



    ZERO!

    It would be forever stuck at half-mast if that happened.
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

  15. #15
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfn View Post
    Americans dropped the flag to half mast after the Colombia disaster. 7 people died then, which is less than the Colorado attack. Should the flag have been dropped then?
    Colombia had a NASA crew on board, Those people are heroes. They rick their lives for their job. SO YES they deserved the honor of half mast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfn View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptOldTimer View Post
    How many times has your so called president ordered the US Flag to be flowed a half staff for any military personnel being killed in action?
    ZERO!
    It would be forever stuck at half-mast if that happened.
    Agreed, that's why local towns do the honor of such.

    Loss of life is tragic no matter what and should be respected and honored, in part. But certain person deserve the extra honor (ie flag lowered) and that extra should not be cheapened by giving it to everyone.

    How would you feel if every person that died got a firefighters funeral?, Flags, bag pipes, the works? It wouldn't feel as special when a FF dies would it?


    Ok, I am taking leave on this topic before it goes too far. Remember folks. it's just opinions.

  16. #16
    Forum Member
    Wolfn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tampa, Florida
    Posts
    132

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D. View Post
    Colombia had a NASA crew on board, Those people are heroes. They rick their lives for their job. SO YES they deserved the honor of half mast.
    And the people who died protecting others (including one who was in the American military) at the Colorado shooting are not heroes?


    What about Virginia Tech? Should the flag have been flown at half mast for that?
    Normal is an illusion. What is normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.

  17. #17
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfn View Post
    And the people who died protecting others (including one who was in the American military) at the Colorado shooting are not heroes?


    What about Virginia Tech? Should the flag have been flown at half mast for that?
    Well, let's see. If Jane Doe is driving down the road and is about to have an accident and can tell it's going to be bad, so she throws herself on top of her child to protect them. Yes, in a way she is a hero, but no she does not earn a lowered flag.

    The solider that died in the theater, he deserves his local town to lower the flag.

    There is a fine line on this issue, but the end result is still that the honor of a lowered flag should not be cheapened by doing it for everyone.


    As for VT, no, I don't think it deserved a lowered flag, nor did Columbine.

  18. #18
    Forum Member
    DeputyChiefGonzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Somewhere between genius and insanity!
    Posts
    13,584

    Default

    I have no problem with a community lowering the Colors to half staf for a fallen Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Marine or Coast Guardsman, nor for a firefighter, police officer, State Trooper or Corrections officer killed in the line of duty.

    Governor Chris Christie of New Jersey cheapened the lowering of the Colors for Whitney Houston.
    ‎"The education of a firefighter and the continued education of a firefighter is what makes "real" firefighters. Continuous skill development is the core of progressive firefighting. We learn by doing and doing it again and again, both on the training ground and the fireground."
    Lt. Ray McCormack, FDNY

  19. #19
    Banned

    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Anyone lower for Neil Armstrong?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Canadian Firefighter Punished for Flying Flag at Half Staff!
    By CaptOldTimer in forum The 9-11 Tragedy
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-04-2010, 11:49 AM
  2. Half staff flasgs?
    By backdraft663 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 01-14-2005, 01:30 PM
  3. Half Staff
    By DozerGrl in forum Michigan
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-16-2004, 02:36 PM
  4. half staff flag
    By sklump in forum Firefighters Forum
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 10-28-2004, 04:59 AM
  5. Flags still at half-staff?
    By pete892 in forum The Off Duty Forums
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-11-2004, 10:22 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Log in

Click here to log in or register