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Thread: Our new Engine/Tanker

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    Rear suction with front preconnects allows us to pull in the driveway and drop the tank behind us.
    Same for us on the new engine we're getting ready to purchase for the VFD.

    In addition to the points you made, if we're assigned as the drop site engine, it will also allow us to pull directly into the driveway and draft from the drop tank that's placed where the driveway and the road meet without having to worry about backing into the driveway...something that we currently have to deal with on several of the engines in our jurisdiction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    So how is that set up? Do you have hard suction preconnected on the rear, or just the intake? Are the front preconnects for discharge and what size? What kind of truck is this on? We honestly never considered a rear suction, just the rear direct tank fill.
    We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

    The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

    The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

    It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

    Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

    The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

    The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

    It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

    Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

    Attachment 22292Attachment 22293

    That is a nice setup, I have to say I've never seen crosslays on the bumper like that. I assume you have 5" and 3" in the rear bed? Other than having all 2" I could see that working for us too, but we're done buying trucks for a while.

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    One reason we speced the rear suction over a front suction is their is less bends trying to go around engine and axles so should have less friction loss. Only negative is backing into a lake, ect when we have used it as a draft engine at a refill site.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchkrat View Post
    One reason we speced the rear suction over a front suction is their is less bends trying to go around engine and axles so should have less friction loss. Only negative is backing into a lake, ect when we have used it as a draft engine at a refill site.
    I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.

    And I forgot to mention a couple of other neat features. The truck has an added park brake function that engages the front brakes as well for parking on a hill. There is also a transaxle lock to lock the drive axles on slippery ground at low speeds for better traction. We will also be adding automatic ice chains to one of the drive axles, it came off of the truck that got replaced with this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.
    You might want to do some tests. Unless you're dealing with a 750, you may be in for a surprise. Let us know your numbers. I, for one, would be very interested.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

    The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

    The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

    It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

    Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

    Attachment 22292Attachment 22293
    I like your rescue reel setup in the rear compartment, did you spec it that way because the driver & passenger compartments are not full depth ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    I like your rescue reel setup in the rear compartment, did you spec it that way because the driver & passenger compartments are not full depth ?
    Actually, every compartment on that engine is full depth. We just decided that we wanted the reels to come off the back as that engine wuld pull past the scene to block from the front, and the second engine would block the scene from the rear.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefengineer11 View Post
    You might want to do some tests. Unless you're dealing with a 750, you may be in for a surprise. Let us know your numbers. I, for one, would be very interested.
    We haven't done too much with it yet, so we don't know all our capabilities yet. (I kinda thought they'd maybe test the front suction at the factory, but I guess the side intake is what counts for the rating) We did test the two tank to pump lines and could flow 1000gpm from the tank with the deck gun. I think we'll probably try to stick to 750 gpm with the deck gun off of tank water because of the quality and reach of the stream, plus it gives 3+ minutes of water. It's rated to about 1250, but for some reason 750 gpm seemed to hold a better straight stream. We'll have to play with it more though.

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    johnsb,

    If you look at the typical front suction it has 2-90 degree elbows on the front bumper, 4-45's over the axle, and 1 or 2-90's into the pump. That really creates a ton of friction loss.
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    Our next engine will have both a front suction and rear suction. We have started using our front suction more for routine hookups and it's great. We currently run supply beds of 3", so the front intake is the only way for us to start off of tank water and switch to the hydrant using the short supply of LDH we do carry (no piston intakes on the steamer caps). How are your front and rear suctions gated? Ours is via a air actuated valve (like the pump shift switch in the cab) and it can make for a hard changover.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.
    As the others have said, you'll likely be very surprised when you do flow tests on the front suction. On all of the rigs I've performed pump tests on, it's not unusual to only get 50% to 60% of the pump's rated capacity when using a front intake.

    As Fyred pointed out, this is largely due to the elbows involved. Did you know that a single 90˚ 6" elbow is equivalent to 18' of straight pipe? When you add all of the 45's and 90's, it's not unusual to have the equivalent of 100' or more of suction piping from the intake to the pump.
    Last edited by BoxAlarm187; 08-23-2012 at 12:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    We currently run supply beds of 3", so the front intake is the only way for us to start off of tank water and switch to the hydrant using the short supply of LDH we do carry (no piston intakes on the steamer caps).
    I'm curious, why no piston intakes?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I'm curious, why no piston intakes?
    We have no LDH, other than a single 25' squirrel tail we use if and when we can get close enough to a plug to hit the front suction. This one piece of hose is threaded (no Storz couplings) for the hydrant on one end and the truck on the other. I can't justfiy spending the $1,000+ for an appliance we rarely would ever use. With the way we run. I would replace the steamer caps with 6"x (2) 2 1/2" siameses before I bought piston intakes.

    We are, however, looking at trying for a regional grant next year to upgrade all of the trucks in our county who don't already have it to LDH.
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    Thanks GT. You know, if I'd read your post a little more carefully, I'd have seen that y'all had little use for a PIV in light of the 3" supply line.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTRider245 View Post
    Our next engine will have both a front suction and rear suction. We have started using our front suction more for routine hookups and it's great. We currently run supply beds of 3", so the front intake is the only way for us to start off of tank water and switch to the hydrant using the short supply of LDH we do carry (no piston intakes on the steamer caps). How are your front and rear suctions gated? Ours is via a air actuated valve (like the pump shift switch in the cab) and it can make for a hard changover.
    Both our drivers side intake and rear intake have electric valves (no gate on officer side intake).

    We also added additional primers so we can primer either driver or rear suctions before the valve - allows us to flow water from the tank while pre-priming the lines then cutting over to drafting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    Here's a pic of the plaque on the truck honoring a local WWII Vet. It's on the officer's side pump panel.
    UPDATE: Don Wilson the WWII vet and former Asst. Chief that the truck is dedicated to passed away yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsb View Post
    UPDATE: Don Wilson the WWII vet and former Asst. Chief that the truck is dedicated to passed away yesterday.
    Sorry to hear that, Brother. My condolences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FyredUp View Post
    We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

    The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

    The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

    It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

    Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

    Attachment 22292Attachment 22293
    I think the guys who specced your rig, and the ones who specced our last new rig were from the exact same school of thought. We used the same essential setup: 2 crosslays in the front bumper, and a rear intake. Ours is a Spartan/4Guys, so the body is a trifle different, but very close! We love having those front crosslays. They're easy to pull and stretch, and a snap to reload. We also have a number of areas that are tight, with trees and brush that make crosslays a real PITA to use.

    Where the folding steps are on the rear of yours, are two compartments running full length between the tank and high sides. DR side has the ground ladders, Officer's has suctions, backboards, and pike poles. The suction is inside the rear comp, which is recessed. Rear side compts are full depth, so the back step area looks like the one on the OP's new beast. We RARELY draft, or use fold-a-tanks, so that rear suction is mainly used to keep a slimmer profile when operating alongside busy roads, and/or with forward lays.

    So, tell us the truth- how often has the officer's rear floodlight been effed up by the ladder rack when someone wasn't paying attention?? lol- I ask, because we had that happen on our old rescue pumper. He got his balls busted forever after that!

    Anyhow, nice rig- both yours and the OP's! We have one in the works that is going to be a war wagon, like that Pierce. Only 1000 gal though.

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    Never tore it off with the ladder rack...but have torn one off with the door jamb. We only have about an inch and a half clearance on each side.

    Those front crosslays are VERY popular here.
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    Just an update.

    http://www.piercemfg.com/en/experien...er-Tanker.aspx

    We've done three training fires with it and it's performed beautifully.

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    How is that Cummins 450 HP ISL hauling 2500 gallons of water & foam ? Also what type of brakes are on your new rig.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge View Post
    How is that Cummins 450 HP ISL hauling 2500 gallons of water & foam ? Also what type of brakes are on your new rig.
    The Cummins 450 does a really good job. It's governed at 60mph per NFPA, which is about as fast as I'd want to drive it on a good 2 lane highway. It rides like a tour bus, really smooth, just a lot of weight. (65,900 GVW) It's not the fastest truck, but I wouldn't call it a dog either, it probably right where it needs to be with the weight. We mostly have flat roads, but we do have a few hills. If this were someplace with a lot of hills I'd say you'd need a 500, but 450 is fine here.
    It's got WABCO brakes, with drum brakes I believe, and as an added feature, we have additional parking brakes for the front axle if we're parked on an incline. We also have a Jake Brake to help with stopping.

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    How much does the truck weigh on the scales fully loaded and ready to go out the door?

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    How much does the truck weigh on the scales fully loaded and ready to go out the door?
    I'll have to get back to you on that, I don't know if it's been weighed yet, and I know we still have some equipment to add, maybe another few hundred pounds or so.

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