Our new Engine/Tanker

[Rescue101]

You'll LIKE that frt suction. Keeps the tanks out of the road and one FF can set it up.

[johnsb]

You'll LIKE that frt suction. Keeps the tanks out of the road and one FF can set it up.

We spec'd it because we have it on our other front line engine. And we do love it, makes dump tank ops really easy on narrow roads. One of our tactics on house fires is to back into the driveway enough so that we can put the tank in front of the engine. If it's a longer driveway the first engine can lay a line and the second one can back in and set up.

[mitchkrat]

We have a rear suction on a pumper tanker. Works great to start off as a nurse tanker then switch over to a draft engine. Ditto on keeping the dump tanks in line with the truck.

[FyredUp]

Rear suction with front preconnects allows us to pull in the driveway and drop the tank behind us.

[johnsb]

Rear suction with front preconnects allows us to pull in the driveway and drop the tank behind us.

So how is that set up? Do you have hard suction preconnected on the rear, or just the intake? Are the front preconnects for discharge and what size? What kind of truck is this on? We honestly never considered a rear suction, just the rear direct tank fill.

[BoxAlarm187]

Rear suction with front preconnects allows us to pull in the driveway and drop the tank behind us.

Same for us on the new engine we're getting ready to purchase for the VFD.

In addition to the points you made, if we're assigned as the drop site engine, it will also allow us to pull directly into the driveway and draft from the drop tank that's placed where the driveway and the road meet without having to worry about backing into the driveway...something that we currently have to deal with on several of the engines in our jurisdiction.

[FyredUp]

So how is that set up? Do you have hard suction preconnected on the rear, or just the intake? Are the front preconnects for discharge and what size? What kind of truck is this on? We honestly never considered a rear suction, just the rear direct tank fill.

We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

[johnsb]

We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

Attachment 22292Attachment 22293

That is a nice setup, I have to say I've never seen crosslays on the bumper like that. I assume you have 5" and 3" in the rear bed? Other than having all 2" I could see that working for us too, but we're done buying trucks for a while.

[mitchkrat]

One reason we speced the rear suction over a front suction is their is less bends trying to go around engine and axles so should have less friction loss. Only negative is backing into a lake, ect when we have used it as a draft engine at a refill site.

[johnsb]

One reason we speced the rear suction over a front suction is their is less bends trying to go around engine and axles so should have less friction loss. Only negative is backing into a lake, ect when we have used it as a draft engine at a refill site.

I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.

And I forgot to mention a couple of other neat features. The truck has an added park brake function that engages the front brakes as well for parking on a hill. There is also a transaxle lock to lock the drive axles on slippery ground at low speeds for better traction. We will also be adding automatic ice chains to one of the drive axles, it came off of the truck that got replaced with this one.

[chiefengineer11]

I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.

You might want to do some tests. Unless you're dealing with a 750, you may be in for a surprise. Let us know your numbers. I, for one, would be very interested.

[Woodbridge]

We like the rear suction. Not only do we use it for drop tank ops, we use it for forward lay ops with 5 inch hose.

The hard suction is not preconnected, but it is located in the hose bed right above the rear intake.

The front preconnects are crosslays across the front bumper tray. There are 2-200 foot 2 inch preconnects located there. They have a 200 gpm at 75 psi break apart combination nozzle backed by a 1 1/4 inch slug tip. We do not have 1 3/4 or 2 1/2inch hose, 2 inch is our only handline size.

It is on an HME 1871-P2, MFD-12, with a 2000 gpm Hale QMax pump, 1000 gallon water tank, HaleFoam Logix and a 30 gallon foam tank.

Here is a pic of the front crosslays and the rear intake:

Attachment 22292Attachment 22293

I like your rescue reel setup in the rear compartment, did you spec it that way because the driver & passenger compartments are not full depth ?

[FyredUp]

I like your rescue reel setup in the rear compartment, did you spec it that way because the driver & passenger compartments are not full depth ?

Actually, every compartment on that engine is full depth. We just decided that we wanted the reels to come off the back as that engine wuld pull past the scene to block from the front, and the second engine would block the scene from the rear.

[johnsb]

You might want to do some tests. Unless you're dealing with a 750, you may be in for a surprise. Let us know your numbers. I, for one, would be very interested.

We haven't done too much with it yet, so we don't know all our capabilities yet. (I kinda thought they'd maybe test the front suction at the factory, but I guess the side intake is what counts for the rating) We did test the two tank to pump lines and could flow 1000gpm from the tank with the deck gun. I think we'll probably try to stick to 750 gpm with the deck gun off of tank water because of the quality and reach of the stream, plus it gives 3+ minutes of water. It's rated to about 1250, but for some reason 750 gpm seemed to hold a better straight stream. We'll have to play with it more though.

[FyredUp]

johnsb,

If you look at the typical front suction it has 2-90 degree elbows on the front bumper, 4-45's over the axle, and 1 or 2-90's into the pump. That really creates a ton of friction loss.

[GTRider245]

Our next engine will have both a front suction and rear suction. We have started using our front suction more for routine hookups and it's great. We currently run supply beds of 3", so the front intake is the only way for us to start off of tank water and switch to the hydrant using the short supply of LDH we do carry (no piston intakes on the steamer caps). How are your front and rear suctions gated? Ours is via a air actuated valve (like the pump shift switch in the cab) and it can make for a hard changover.

[BoxAlarm187]

I'll have to check, but I think you can still get close to the rated flow throught the front suction.

As the others have said, you'll likely be very surprised when you do flow tests on the front suction. On all of the rigs I've performed pump tests on, it's not unusual to only get 50% to 60% of the pump's rated capacity when using a front intake.

As Fyred pointed out, this is largely due to the elbows involved. Did you know that a single 90˚ 6" elbow is equivalent to 18' of straight pipe? When you add all of the 45's and 90's, it's not unusual to have the equivalent of 100' or more of suction piping from the intake to the pump.

[BoxAlarm187]

We currently run supply beds of 3", so the front intake is the only way for us to start off of tank water and switch to the hydrant using the short supply of LDH we do carry (no piston intakes on the steamer caps).

I'm curious, why no piston intakes?

[GTRider245]

I'm curious, why no piston intakes?

We have no LDH, other than a single 25' squirrel tail we use if and when we can get close enough to a plug to hit the front suction. This one piece of hose is threaded (no Storz couplings) for the hydrant on one end and the truck on the other. I can't justfiy spending the $1,000+ for an appliance we rarely would ever use. With the way we run. I would replace the steamer caps with 6"x (2) 2 1/2" siameses before I bought piston intakes.

We are, however, looking at trying for a regional grant next year to upgrade all of the trucks in our county who don't already have it to LDH.

[BoxAlarm187]

Thanks GT. You know, if I'd read your post a little more carefully, I'd have seen that y'all had little use for a PIV in light of the 3" supply line.