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  1. #1
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Default Whats missing in your gear bag?

    Without a doubt, the carabiner is the workhorse of any rope rescue team. I recently acquired a rappel ring for under 5 bucks. This thing is real handy, and so far I have found several uses for it.
    • Belay anchor plate
    • Multipoint anchor
    • friction device
    • collection point for loose carabiners

    With the cost of rope gear, rappel rings are a good item to have in your bag. What have you used rappel rings for?

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  2. #2
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    Default

    Many years ago we did much the same thing but now we would use a rated tri-link (delta). For about $15 it replaces not only the ring but also all three carabiners.
    Dave

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    Default

    The majority of the time we also use a rated 12mm delta, 14 for some anchor applications. Carabiners are used very little now.

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    Delta links are a great tool when triple loading. Not trying to be snarky here, but it seems that the use of delta links in place of carabiners, where only bi-loaded instead of tri-loaded, is a dumbing down of rope rescue.

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    I agree completely, but the Delta is being used heavily by the Rope Tech class taught by U of I, and since currently they are the only game in town ... I see a lot of Deltas being purchased in IL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADSNWFLD View Post
    I agree completely, but the Delta is being used heavily by the Rope Tech class taught by U of I, and since currently they are the only game in town ... I see a lot of Deltas being purchased in IL.
    Not the only game in town if you're talking about the state of IL.

  7. #7
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    I could not find how Delta's are rated in NFPA1983, but it would seem to me that the rated breaking strength is based on equal loading of two vectors. Single vector load would probably change the breaking strength considerably.

    The other issues I have with the delta link is smaller gate opening and speed of opening and closing the screw gate.
    I like how I can just snap a carabiner in place, not so with a delta.

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    Last edited by MichaelXYZ; 08-27-2012 at 04:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    I could not find how Delta's are rated in NFPA1983, but it would seem to me that the rated breaking strength is based on equal loading of two vectors. Single vector load would probably change the breaking strength considerably.

    The other issues I have with the delta link is smaller gate opening and speed of opening and closing the screw gate.
    I like how I can just snap a carabiner in place, not so with a delta.

    Attachment 22314
    All gear and all methods of any operation have pros and cons. You've mentioned a couple of cons for the delta. The con that I was aiming at is that if the delta is always used in place of the carabiner, the user doesn't need to gain an understanding of the abuses of a carabiner that should be avoided. But then the pro to that is that you can get by with having people running an operation without everyone truly understanding everything that's going on. In other words, folks knowing how to do something that they're told, but not entirely why. I think it all boils down to financial resources. It costs more to train people to a level of "why", as opposed to simply "how".

  9. #9
    Forum Member MichaelXYZ's Avatar
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    Not exactly sure I got your meaning, but I see the delta as having a use, but replacing the versatility of the carabiner is not one of them. I would love to see the UofI task book for rope techs.

    Some of you folks have 20+ years experience in this area, I am still just a newcomer, so I am always willing to learn.
    Last edited by MichaelXYZ; 08-27-2012 at 05:21 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelXYZ View Post
    Not exactly sure I got your meaning, but I see the delta as having a use, but replacing the versatility of the carabiner is not one of them.
    Yes, as Dave and I both said in our first posts of this thread, the delta is a great tool if you are going to be triple loading a point. Otherwise, the likely reason for replacing all carabiners (bi-loaded) with deltas is simply so as to not have to take the time to explain triple loading as an abuse of a carabiner. The common example is the placing of a carabiner on a manufactured anchor sling that's basket hitched on an object, and without concern for the angle within the hitch.

    It's an assumption that the student is not going to retain the knowledge that you just gave them about carabiners. And that may be for a variety of reasons, but ultimately it's because so many depts. can't afford to provide the needed in-house training to maintain skills/knowledge retention at a high level. This is especially the case if dept. also expects a person to be decent at multiple other disciplines of rescue. It's the old saying of "jack of all trades, but master of none". Budget constraints dictate this, and a "deltas only, no carabiners" mantra is but one example of its manifestation.

  11. #11
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    Michael -

    I have to respond to the comment on the delta and 1983. I think we took often give creedence to only using 1983 equipment. If the product comes from a reputable manufacturer and you know the strength rating why not use it? If you buy a carabiner straight from Rock Exotica it won't have an NFPA designation on it. (Some of thier distributor's may have chosen to have them certified, but RE does not) I use thier products ALL THE TIME!!! Most of the delta links I see are marketed by Petzel. Again, a name we all trust!!

    With the delta, it isn't technically a carabiner so it doesn't really fit into any of the equipment classifications

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